Groups conforming to contact

So we are back to "is conforming a move to contact or not?"

A single element of Artillery contacted by a column of pike (a group) conforms to it ending in position (a) of the permissible moves to contact an enemy. Except that the rules also say that artillery cannot move into any contact with enemy.

So does the Artillery not conform (despite the rules saying that it should)? Or does conforming to contact initiated by an enemy not count as a move to contact? And if conforming by a single element doesn't count as moving to contact, why should conforming by a group be treated differently? (I am excluding the possibility that the combination of the two provisions means the column can't contact the Artillery.)

As you can see, I've changed my mind.

Simple answer…
…the Art has NOT moved into the enemy…
…the enemy has moved into THEM…

They are already in contact due to the Pike column’s advance.
They ain’t got no choice…the fight has come to them.
So conform or fight as if overlapped.

But shifting up to 2 BW from a ‘no-contact position’ to a ‘contact position’
is taking the fight to the enemy, and violates my old favourite rule:-
“CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into ANY contact with (the) enemy”...
...and there are NO exceptions to this rule (apart from WWg Towers, and even
they cannot move into contact with enemy elements, only Cities, Forts and Camps)

Another simple answer…
…page 9, Moving into Contact, 2nd paragraph, 3rd sentence. Quote:-
       “If conforming to a front edge by contactors is prevented by part-element spacing between
        enemy or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge, contacted elements or
        groups must either conform or fight as if in full contact and overlapped.”

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Look everybody, I don’t want to cause a fuss.
I will happily abide by whatever the DBA community decides.
It just that it’s better to have these discussions here rather than in the middle of a game.

So, just to make sure an old thicky like me gets it right, can I assume that the following is correct.
Since conforming is not really ‘moving’, a non-bounding group that has to conform can:-
      ● Ignore the “no contact rule” for CP, Lit, CWg, Art and WWg.
      ● Ignore “the distance travelled is at the speed of the slowest element within that group” rule.
      ● Ignore “the movement rules”, so the distance travelled when forced to conform is unlimited.
      ● Ignore the slowing effects of any hindering terrain being travelled through.
      ● Ignore the “Art and WWg cannot pass at all off-road through bad going" rule.
      ● And ignore the “groups can only wheel forwards” rule, since conforming is not ‘moving’.

That’s rather a lot of rule exceptions.
And who gets to decide when a rule must be applied or when it can be ignored?

“Never give up and never surrender!” as they said in Galaxy Quest.
(I’m afraid this going to be another loooong answer)

1) “Sorry stevie. That "simple" answer doesn't address the question as set.
     That only applies when conforming to a front edge by contactors is prevented by something.
     This won't be the case where a group contacts a single element because the rules say that
     the single element has to conform.”

Yes, because it is the moving group that triggered the conforming, and has initiated the contact.
But a ‘Static’ element that is part of a non-bounding group that must conform because the moving
bounding group is blocked, and moving/travelling/re-positioning/shifting it up to 2 BW from its
original non-contact position to a brand new in-contact position in a totally different location some
distance away from where it started is strictly forbidden by the “no contact” rule, with no exceptions.
I really don’t see the problem.

The default rule is “At the end of a bound’s movement phase the contacting (i.e. moving) element
or at least one element of the contacting (i.e. moving) group must be lined-up with an enemy element,
in a, b, c, or d positions, or the move does not happen.”
This is then over-ridden in the next paragraph which says it’s not always the contacting (i.e. moving)
troops that must conform; sometimes the non-bounding non-moving troops must conform instead…
…such as when a a group contacts a single lone element (unless it is entirely in Rough/Bad Going).
Last of all the very bottom forth paragraph overrides all the proceeding paragraphs by saying that
‘Static’ elements cannot move into ANY kind of contact with the enemy, and no exceptions are given.
(It doesn’t say “…except when conforming” for example)

2) “So, I would say disapply the first, observe points 2-5…” 

Make up your mind…is conforming moving or not? Don’t just pick and choose.

3) “...and 6 doesn't apply as conforming results in front edge to front edge contact
     which can't be achieved by going backwards.”

I again refer you to the ‘default contact rule’:-
“At the end of a bound’s movement phase the contacting (i.e. moving) element
 or at least one element of the contacting group must be lined-up with an enemy element…”

The whole group doesn’t have to end in front-edge contact…part of the group could tag along
to maintain the group’s integrity, even if they don’t contact anybody.
Or must non-bounding non-moving groups that are forced to conform because the bounding moving
group is blocked have to split up to avoid moving backwards? And if so, where does it say this?

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Would someone just tell me which rule I must follow and which rule I can ignore!? 

(You known my thoughts…
…follow the rules, ALL of them, and don’t miss any out or invent imaginary rule exceptions)

Saying that it's the moving group which triggers conforming and that initiates the contact is stating the obvious isn't it? And it will always apply. If there is no move, there is no new contact and if there is no new contact, there is nothing to which to conform.

At the risk of repeating myself, is conforming by a single element a "move to contact" or not? If it is, then the single element of Artillery cannot conform when contacted by a pike column - and doesn't fight as if overlapped. If it isn't, then - by Grabthar's hammer - there is nothing to stop it conforming as part of a group.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words Menacussecundas.

                        

Here it is the Red player’s bound, and the Red group advances into contact.
Now the Red group should conform, but cannot and still stay as a group.
So the Blue player must do the conforming instead, or fight as if overlapped.
As you can see, if the Blue-C/D/E group conforms as a group, then Blue-E
ends up shifting backwards.
(And Red is not bothered about being attacked in the flank, as the Threat Zone
generated by Red-D prevents this)

In the real world, I can go to a static immobile object like a mountain.
But in the topsy-turvy Alice in Wonderland world of DBA, the mountain,
a static immobile object, can come to me.
(I hope not!…I don’t have the room! Ha, ha, ha)

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And thank you very much for your input Arnopov.
That is just what I wanted…a clear and direct answer. 👍

So conforming is not moving.
And this is not based on any written rule in Phil Barker’s rule book,
but comes from player’s imagination of what they think the rules should say.

Oh, I’m not complaining you understand.
Although I won’t use ‘V’ shaped formations, I only asked the question in case
my opponent does, and I wanted to know what they would be capable of and
how I can counter it.

However, I can see this would cause lots of weird effects, such as non-bounding
groups that are forced to conform exceeding their normal move distance
(which effectively becomes unlimited) Art and WWg passing through or even
ending up in bad going, as well as in ‘Static’ elements bypassing the “no contact”
rule and choosing to end in close combat if they wished, to name but a few.

Still, providing we all know and use the same rules, we shall all be in the same boat.

...for me it looks still like a geometrical trap, or like a hack. Far DBA-starters it could be intessertin to see what is allowed by tde rules but to winn a battle you need more then a virtual situation that is not explaynet by the rules. In a tournament an unpire will beside...