Groups conforming to contact

Quite right stevie. 

However, as I mentioned a day or so ago, the rules also say that a single element contacted by a group conforms to the group.  

So if a single element of Art (or a Lit or a CP) is contacted by a 2 element wide group, do you ignore the rule which says it should conform (because it will contact the second enemy element corner to corner) or do you ignore the rule that it cannot move into any contact with the enemy?

Of course not Menacussecundus.
A single element must conform to the group (and any extra corner-to-corner contact is purely accidental).
Why?…because it is the moving group that initiated the contact against this ‘Static’ element.

But that is totally different from picking up a ‘Static’ element that has not been contacted,
shifting it up to 2 BW across the table, plonking it down into close combat with a fresh enemy,
then claiming “oh it’s ok, the no contact rules don’t apply to me”.
In this case it is the ‘Static’ element that is initiating the contact.
How did they manage to this shift position…were they using the Starship Enterprise’s teleporter system!

And I do apologise for having to keep repeating it, but:-
“CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into ANY contact with (the) enemy”…
….they have to let the enemy come to them, not the other way round.

Now I know what players are going to say…conforming is not ‘moving’.
Let us explore this shall we.

* What if in Cgd’s diagram the ‘Static’ element in question were at the end of a long line, say 4 or 5 elements long,
   and over 2 BW away. Could it still conform if it exceeds its move distance? (After all, conforming is not moving).

* What if the line were shorter, but the ‘Static’ element had to traverse a patch of rough going?
   Could it still exceed its move distance in such terrain? (After all, conforming is not moving).

* Last of all, what if the patch of terrain were bad going instead?
   Could Art and WWg not only exceed their move distance, but end in bad going, when Tactical Moves at the top of
   page 9 says “Art and WWG cannot deploy or move at all off-road in bad going”? (After all, conforming is not moving).

Do players begin to see the Pandora’s Box that is being opened here when people try to use clever linguistics to
bypass and circumvent Phil Barker’s rules by concentrating on one of them without considering the effects this
will have on the other rules?

My solution to these paradoxes is much, much simpler…
…play by the rules, ALL of them, and don’t miss any out.
So conforming DOES NOT bypass or circumvent the ‘movement rules’, nor the ‘no contact rules’.

The only exceptions to a rule should be fully written out and described in the rule book…not in people’s imagination.

I’m always happy to answer difficult questions Menacussecundas (…well…when I think I have the answer ).

Accidental Contact
This happens all the time…elements recoiling and bumping into the enemy, elements pursuing,
elements fleeing, and when conforming front-edge to front-edge, with corners touching,
but there is another enemy adjacent to the one you are trying to conform to.
(In the latter case it’s a matter of ‘tough luck’…that’s what you get for being outnumbered).

Exceeding the move distance when conforming.
Unless we want to add another imaginary rule exception, which appears nowhere in the rule book,
I happen to think the movement rules should apply to EVERY situation, including conforming.
The exception of course is combat outcomes, which have their own movement rules.
(Remember by motto: “play by the rules, ALL of them, and don’t miss any out”)
After all, it would be pretty silly if a long line of say 9 or 10 elements had the one on the far end
shifting its position by 8 BW just because the element at the other end of that group had to conform,
then claiming “oh it’s ok, the move distance rules don’t apply to me”.
(We are not all Boris Johnson you know. Ha, ha, ha! )

Can a group in Bad Going conform as a group
Well now…this all depends.
Groups can still be formed in Bad Going…they just can’t ‘move’ as a group (unless entirely all Psiloi).
But the question is pretty academic:-
In Bad Going the moving enemy element or Psiloi group must do the conforming.
“Ah but oh so clever Stevie, what if part of the group where outside, and they have to conform?”
Then yes, I’d let ’em conform as a group, and the same goes for Allies.
They are in a group, and groups can conform…providing they don’t exceed their speed for the
going they are in and are not ‘Static’ elements that cannot move into ANY contact with (the) enemy”.
(Remember, ‘Static’ elements cannot start a fight…the enemy has to come to them)

I think you may be missing a vital part of the equation Menacussecundas.
                         ---Who initiated the contact?---
Note: not who initiated the conforming involving the ‘Static’ element,
but who initiated the actual physical contact with the ‘Static’ element.
There is a big difference.

Lets have another look at Cgd’s diagram, and assume poor little old me has the ‘Static’ elements,
but Art-Y is replaced by a ‘Command Element’ (i.e. a CP, Lit or CWg).


My Blade-W/Blade-X group has three options (my choice):-
     a) Stay where they are, and Blade-W fights as if overlapped.
     b) Split the group and have Blade-W conform, and have it overlapped by enemy Blade-B.
     c) Have both Blades conform as a group, and Blade-X will then be overlapped by enemy Ele-C.
The enemy initiated the conforming by moving into me, but I decide on how to respond.

Now lets see what the ‘Static’ elements could do (again, my choice):-
     a) Stay where they are, and Art-Z fights as if overlapped.
     b) Split the group and have Art-Z conform, and have it overlapped by enemy Ele-C.
But what I should NOT be allowed to do is to conform both my ‘Static’ elements as a group,
as then it would be me, yours truly, that is initiating the actual physical contact on ‘Static’ element-Y.
I’ll be the one that is deliberately choosing to start the fight with the enemy, not them coming to me.
The enemy may have initiated the conforming by moving into me, but my options are limited due to
the ‘Static’ elements “no contact rule”.

Now I am fully aware that the phrases ‘initiated the combat’ and ‘letting the enemy come to the
‘Static’ elements, and not the other way round’ are not in the rule book…but then again, neither
is the phrase ‘the no contact rule can be ignored, if you wish, when conforming’.

If the bottom of page 9 had said:-
“CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into ANY contact with (the) enemy, except when conforming”,
then we wouldn’t be having this conversation…but it doesn’t.
The only exception given is that of a WWg Tower contacting a City, Fort or Camp. Nothing else.

Let me try looking at it another way.
The Moving Into Contact section on page 9 is composed of four paragraphs.
The first paragraph has four legal end-of-move-phase positions listed, i.e. a), b), c) and d).
So can I move my ‘Static’ elements into any of these four legal positions?
No, because the last paragraph says “CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into ANY contact with (the) enemy.”
Thus the forth bottom paragraph overrides the first paragraph, and limits the use of ‘Static’ elements.

Well, if the forth paragraph overrides the first paragraph, why doesn’t override the the other paragraphs as well?
Especially as nowhere in the rules does it say “Static elements cannot make contact, except when conforming.

That last forth paragraph isn’t going to disappear just because you have to conform and it’s not your bound.
Play by the rules, ALL of them, and don’t miss any out.

(Sorry if I’ve made all this sound complicated, but it’s really quite simple…
…‘Static’ elements cannot start a fight…the enemy has to come to them)

I'll try to use bigger but fewer words next time Baldie.

Thank you stevie. I am persuaded.