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Post by j on Aug 27, 2019 23:16:03 GMT
Also, with Littoral, you can choose 1-3 DH OR 1-3 Marsh; 1-3 Woods OR 1-3 Dunes.
This just says your waterway is going through either hilly OR marshy terrain; wooded or desert terrain
Regards,
j
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Post by Les1964 on Sept 2, 2019 1:41:59 GMT
stevieWhat Joe says , " The conversation occurred on 8/02/2012... So, one could have both a BUA and 2 Plough as compulsory picks..." What Bob says , "I could find not discussion from Phil on the original decisions on Arable terrain, but thought it interesting to see the evolution of the rule. No one ever thought that BUA or Road meant BUA and Road as it was in 2.2, by the way. And early Version 3 Evolution of Arable Terrain June 15, 2012 ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy, muddy Ploughland. July 12, 2012 ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Ploughland, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy. July 18, 2012 ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Ploughland, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy. Aug 2 2012 ARABLE 1 BUA or Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy. August 24 ARABLE 1 BUA or 2 Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy. October 19 ARABLE 1 BUA or 2 Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, extra Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy." So which one should be used ?
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Post by stevie on Sept 2, 2019 3:00:54 GMT
How about the last one...dated October the 19th...the one in the published version of the rules?
No-one is asking for a word change, just a different interpretation of what ‘2 Plough’ means.
Anyway, why on earth are you asking me for?
I was not one of the DBA 3.0 developers.
I am not part of the FAQ Team.
I have never had any e-mail conversations with Phil Barker.
I just happen to think that Joe Collin’s interpretation makes sense...
...and he was a DBA 3.0 developer, he is part of the FAQ Team, and he did talk to Phil about it.
Why, don’t you believe him?
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Post by martin on Sept 2, 2019 8:03:20 GMT
How about the last one...dated October the 19th...the one in the published version of the rules? No-one is asking for a word change, just a different interpretation of what ‘2 Plough’ means. Anyway, why on earth are you asking me for? I was not one of the DBA 3.0 developers. I am not part of the FAQ Team. I have never had any e-mail conversations with Phil Barker. I just happen to think that Joe Collin’s interpretation makes sense... ...and he was a DBA 3.0 developer, he is part of the FAQ Team, and he did talk to Phil about it. Why, don’t you believe him? ‘Cos others on the development team fundamentally disagree with what Joe has written, at a guess... (...and I happen to think that the ‘new’ interpretation does not make sense, even though you fervently believe it does). |
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Post by stevie on Sept 2, 2019 9:06:17 GMT
How about the last one...dated October the 19th...the one in the published version of the rules? No-one is asking for a word change, just a different interpretation of what ‘2 Plough’ means. Anyway, why on earth are you asking me for? I was not one of the DBA 3.0 developers. I am not part of the FAQ Team. I have never had any e-mail conversations with Phil Barker. I just happen to think that Joe Collin’s interpretation makes sense... ...and he was a DBA 3.0 developer, he is part of the FAQ Team, and he did talk to Phil about it. Why, don’t you believe him? ‘Cos others on the development team fundamentally disagree with what Joe has written, at a guess... (...and I happen to think that the ‘new’ interpretation does not make sense, even though you fervently believe it does). Then why ask me? I have no influence...only my own personal preferences, just as you have. As I see it (and I’m sure someone will correct me if this is incorrect) the events were as follows:- Joe Collins made a suggestion to Phil Barker, who thought about then added it to the rules, although the wording eventually used was most unclear and it was very badly worded. So on the one hand we have Phil Barker himself wanting the ‘2 Plough’ to be a single pick. But on the other hand we have players who don’t like it now that Phil Barker’s intention has finally been made clear, and want to continue using their own interpretation. Would that be a fair summery of the situation? |
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Post by paddy649 on Sept 2, 2019 9:12:49 GMT
I’m still unclear as to what the various rulings are here. On one extreme you could have terrain with a BUA and as many as 3 plough and on the other BUA and plough can never exist together (which seems a little odd to me - just look st the battle of St. Albans as an example).......but I have no idea which one.
In lieu of a definitive FAQ ruling can I ask how the various tournament organisers adjudicate this - especially in the UK.
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Post by stevie on Sept 2, 2019 9:37:20 GMT
Which battle of St. Albans Paddy? (I know, I know...both of them)  |
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Post by arnopov on Sept 2, 2019 9:55:24 GMT
What a mess.
Anyway, who in their right mind would want to use plough? The most pointless terrain in 3.0.
(The only reason I can think of is aesthetic, in which case I would just use decorative items.)
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Post by stevie on Sept 2, 2019 13:35:33 GMT
Oh I don’t know Arnopov...I can think of a very good reason to have lots of Plough. If I have army II/35 Late Macedonians (aggression 1) and my opponent had say I/47 Illyrians (aggression 3), then I’d only have about 1 chance in 6 of being the invader. And as the defender, I’d want as open and empty battlefield as possible so he has nowhere to hide his Auxiliaries in. So I’d definitely pick 3 Plough, all as large as possible, in the hope that as these must extend into an adjacent quarter, there won’t be room for the one obligatory piece of bad going, which I would also make as large as possible and place last so that it gets discarded. (“Just don’t roll a ‘1’ as your first PIP roll Stevie!” )But I think that Paddy has hit the nail on the head with his post above. Under the new interpretation, you can have a BUA and Plough together on the table. With the old way we have been doing it, it’s impossible to have them together (unless you ignore what ‘extra’ Plough means...see how Forest, Tropical and Hilly Regions handles ‘extra’ terrain). So yes, I do think having the ‘2 Plough’ as a single pick makes sense, and the old method is daft. |
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Post by martin on Sept 2, 2019 18:59:01 GMT
Oh I don’t know Arnopov...I can think of a very good reason to have lots of Plough. If I have army II/35 Late Macedonians (aggression 1) and my opponent had say I/47 Illyrians (aggression 3), then I’d only have about 1 chance in 6 of being the invader. And as the defender, I’d want as open and empty battlefield as possible so he has nowhere to hide his Auxiliaries in. So I’d definitely pick 3 Plough, all as large as possible, in the hope that as these must extend into an adjacent quarter, there won’t be room for the one obligatory piece of bad going, which I would also make as large as possible and place last so that it gets discarded.
All the Macedonians need is... A teeny hamlet BUA, pop it in a corner, skinniest ever waterway and a road. Job done. Open battlefield, and nowhere to hide...bar a minute hamlet in a corner. Zero chance of 'plough becomes rough going' .* Martin * which terrain pawsBill refers to as a billiard table (or possibly a Smith Billiard Table....) 🙂 |
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Post by stevie on Sept 2, 2019 20:11:54 GMT
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Post by Baldie on Sept 2, 2019 20:14:12 GMT
Just go for a river, good, bad and indetermined terrain all in one.
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Post by j on Sept 2, 2019 20:27:11 GMT
Just go for a river, good, bad and indetermined terrain all in one. Don't start on rivers fer gawds sake...  Regards, j |
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Post by paddy649 on Sept 2, 2019 20:38:22 GMT
Good thinking Martin - like it!
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Post by Les1964 on Sept 2, 2019 21:24:38 GMT
I just happen to think that Joe Collin’s interpretation makes sense... ...and he was a DBA 3.0 developer, he is part of the FAQ Team, and he did talk to Phil about it. Why, don’t you believe him? Bob got an answer from Sue , who at a guess also talked to Phil . The biggest problem is the way its wrote , " 1 BUA or 2 Plough " , to nearly everyone that means either or , NOT both ( even if 2 plough are classed a 1 pick) .  So which version do we go with ? PS : this works "August 24 ARABLE 1 BUA or 2 Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy." |
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