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Post by vtsaogames on Aug 25, 2019 17:24:13 GMT
Stevie, a suggestion for your impassable terrain: single elements of psiloi can move into/through/exit from cliffs, mountains and jungle at the rate of 1 BW per bound, multiple moves possible if enough pips are used.
I have noted that in actual battles, impassable terrain often becomes negotiable if the other choices are swept by fire.
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Post by Les1964 on Aug 25, 2019 18:31:25 GMT
I like Joe's interpretation. Makes more sense that farms may be near towns, forts or temples. Seems sensible. Cheers Jim You can do the same with what Bob got back from Sue . I just wish someone would put something in the FAQ then this will hopefully be put to bed once and for all .  |
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Post by stevie on Aug 25, 2019 21:04:09 GMT
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Post by martin on Aug 26, 2019 7:22:47 GMT
I like Joe's interpretation. Makes more sense that farms may be near towns, forts or temples. Seems sensible. Cheers Jim You can do the same with what Bob got back from Sue . I just wish someone would put something in the FAQ then this will hopefully be put to bed once and for all . Problem is that opinions differ, including among those contributing/adjudicating on the FAQs. I, personally, disagree with the newly proposed version (though I don’t write the FAQs, note). |
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Post by paddy649 on Aug 26, 2019 8:26:11 GMT
Is it just me that is finding this thread difficult to follow?
What is the final position?
Is it:
1-2 Compulsory = BUA or 2 plough (not both.)
“Extra” allows for BUA and optional plough to be taken together. Does this allow compulsory BUA and up to 3 optional plough to be taken together?
“Extra” also allows up 3 plough to be taken in total if compulsory 2 plough taken. Does this allow 3 plough and 2 other optional terrain pieces to be taken?
“Extra” should not be interpreted as “only if optional 2 compulsory plough are already taken.”
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Post by stevie on Aug 26, 2019 11:34:35 GMT
I think Paddy (although I could be wrong), that Joe Collin’s is saying the following:- I think Obadiah that what Joe is saying is the Arable 2 compulsory Plough should come as a pair, for just one solitary pick (a bit like a ‘buy-one-get-one-free’ offer). So you could have... * One compulsory BUA (for just one pick)...or... * Two compulsory Plough (for just one pick)...or.. * or both a BUA (one pick) AND the 2 Plough (one pick) together as your two compulsory choices. You couldn’t pick two BUA’s, as only one is allowed on the table, and you couldn’t pick two pairs of Plough, as three is the maximum allowed. If this was the original intention, then it got worded badly, so many players like myself thought that the 2 compulsory Plough was two picks, making it impossible to have compulsory Plough and a BUA together. And if you only have a BUA and no Plough, then how can you have ‘Extra Plough’ as an optional pick? ‘Extra’ to what?...the word ‘extra’ implies that you already have some, and are adding more to it. (Look at how the Hilly, Forest and Tropical regions handles 'extra' Woods and 'extra' Difficult Hills) But if compulsory Plough comes as two to a packet, for just one solitary pick, then it all makes sense, and you can never have a single Plough all on its own. But it really has very little impact on the way we have all been doing it (apparently wrongly) up till now, as outlined here:- fanaticus.boards.net/post/24404/ |
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Post by jim1973 on Aug 26, 2019 11:51:07 GMT
I like Joe's interpretation. Makes more sense that farms may be near towns, forts or temples. Seems sensible. Cheers Jim You can do the same with what Bob got back from Sue . I just wish someone would put something in the FAQ then this will hopefully be put to bed once and for all . Agreed. But then you have to ignore the word "extra". If you took a BUA then you couldn't take "extra" Plough. If you took 2 Plough then there is no BUA in the optional terrain. I'm not sure how the FAQ team will solve this problem with an interpretation rather than recommending a change to the "Rules as Written" (i.e. ignore a word printed in the rulebook) Cheers Jim |
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Post by jim1973 on Aug 26, 2019 12:00:16 GMT
I think Paddy (although I could be wrong), that Joe Collin’s is saying the following:- I think Obadiah that what Joe is saying is the Arable 2 compulsory Plough should come as a pair, for just one solitary pick (a bit like a ‘buy-one-get-one-free’ offer). So you could have... * One compulsory BUA (for just one pick)...or... * Two compulsory Plough (for just one pick)...or.. * or both a BUA (one pick) AND the 2 Plough (one pick) together as your two compulsory choices. You couldn’t pick two BUA’s, as only one is allowed on the table, and you couldn’t pick two pairs of Plough, as three is the maximum allowed. If this was the original intention, then it got worded badly, so many players like myself thought that the 2 compulsory Plough was two picks, making it impossible to have compulsory Plough and a BUA together. And if you only have a BUA and no Plough, then how can you have ‘Extra Plough’ as an optional pick? ‘Extra’ to what?...the word ‘extra’ implies that you already have some, and are adding more to it. But if compulsory Plough comes as two to a packet, for just one solitary pick, then it all makes sense, and you can never have a single Plough all on its own. But it really has very little impact on the way we have all been doing it (apparently wrongly) up till now, as outlined here:- fanaticus.boards.net/post/24404/There is one contradiction with Joe's rule. If you take 1 BUA and 2 Plough then you have 3 compulsory features when the rules clearly state 1-2 compulsory features. I wish the "2" wasn't there. The "or" doesn't bother me as much as PB uses "or" in the army lists to mean any mixture can be used. So at least that would be consistent! Cheers Jim |
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Post by stevie on Aug 26, 2019 12:11:35 GMT
You are right Jim...”1 BUA or Plough” would be a better solution. Mind you, if I had my way, I’d make it "1 Plough + 1 BUA or Plough" (so it's always two picks). It is Arable after all, and always having a bit of Plough with a BUA looks much more realistic. And if Arable always has a bit of Plough, then there's no if's or but's about having 'extra' Plough. Oh well...I didn’t write the rules...  Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by paddy649 on Aug 26, 2019 12:11:45 GMT
I currently play the “buy one - get one free” interpretation which allows 3 compulsory (with 2 counting as one) and 3 optional - which makes arable often crowded and with frequent terrain rejects. But Sue’s interpretation also makes sense. Just need to FAQ it into a common interpretation.
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Post by j on Aug 26, 2019 14:18:43 GMT
Is it just me that is finding this thread difficult to follow? What is the final position? Is it: 1-2 Compulsory = BUA or 2 plough (not both.) “Extra” allows for BUA and optional plough to be taken together. Does this allow compulsory BUA and up to 3 optional plough to be taken together? “Extra” also allows up 3 plough to be taken in total if compulsory 2 plough taken. Does this allow 3 plough and 2 other optional terrain pieces to be taken? “Extra” should not be interpreted as “only if optional 2 compulsory plough are already taken.” Nope. I have read & re-read it & still can't remember what the consensus is, if any. Martin has it right - there seems to be a difference of opinion even between the FAQ contributors, never mind between what Sue says & what PB wrote in his email. I personally like the idea of BUA AND 2 Plough but that's not RAW I also like the idea of needing to have picked 2 Plough as compulsory before getting an extra optional Plough even though I can see it either way. But, I'd rather not go with opinions. I'd rather have an official ruling - even if It was not my choice - just so I know I can play the game with anybody at anytime. Oh, well. To quote Mr. Jagger "You can't always get what you want" Regards, j ps "But if you try sometimes, well you might find you get what you need" |
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Post by Les1964 on Aug 26, 2019 18:01:01 GMT
You can do the same with what Bob got back from Sue . I just wish someone would put something in the FAQ then this will hopefully be put to bed once and for all . Agreed. But then you have to ignore the word "extra". If you took a BUA then you couldn't take "extra" Plough. If you took 2 Plough then there is no BUA in the optional terrain. Cheers Jim Or something like this for optional terrain , extra Plough ( if already taken as compulsory ) or Plough ? The biggest stumbling block is the way its wrote , "1 BUA or 2 Plough" , as MOST peoples will read that as either or , but not both .  |
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Post by bob on Aug 27, 2019 15:46:26 GMT
I could find not discussion from Phil on the original decisions on Arable terrain, but thought it interesting to see the evolution of the rule. No one ever thought that BUA or Road meant BUA and Road as it was in 2.2, by the way. And early Version 3
Evolution of Arable Terrain
June 15, 2012
ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy, muddy Ploughland.
July 12, 2012
ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Ploughland, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy.
July 18, 2012
ARABLE 1 BUA or Road. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Ploughland, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy.
Aug 2 2012
ARABLE 1 BUA or Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy.
August 24
ARABLE 1 BUA or 2 Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy.
October 19
ARABLE 1 BUA or 2 Plough. River, Difficult Hills, Gentle Hills, Woods, extra Plough, Enclosures, Road, Waterway, Scrub, Boggy.
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Post by haywire on Aug 27, 2019 20:55:21 GMT
I have just read this fresh. I view it that you must have either 1 BUA OR 2 Plough.
If you choose the BUA, you cannot have any extra Plough. If you choose the 2 Plough, you can choose extra Plough.
So you can have zero, two or three ploughs.
Unless Plough is being used in the plural, when you could have four ploughs.
The more I read it, the more I get frustrated.
For example...Littoral. "Either Difficult Hills or Marsh".
Can I choose just one hill? Presumably not, because of the plural.
Can I choose more than one marsh? Probably not.
Also, the rules talk elsewhere about how you can have two roads.
Roads only appear in the singular in the options.
That implies that I can choose items multiple times from the optional features.
So I can choose two waterways?
Or perhaps two BUA?
I love DBA, but the rules drive me to tears, especially as I do a lot of proof-reading of technical documents at work.
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Post by j on Aug 27, 2019 23:12:05 GMT
I have just read this fresh. I view it that you must have either 1 BUA OR 2 Plough. If you choose the BUA, you cannot have any extra Plough. If you choose the 2 Plough, you can choose extra Plough. So you can have zero, two or three ploughs. Unless Plough is being used in the plural, when you could have four ploughs. The more I read it, the more I get frustrated. For example...Littoral. "Either Difficult Hills or Marsh". Can I choose just one hill? Presumably not, because of the plural. Can I choose more than one marsh? Probably not. Also, the rules talk elsewhere about how you can have two roads. Roads only appear in the singular in the options. That implies that I can choose items multiple times from the optional features. So I can choose two waterways? Or perhaps two BUA? I love DBA, but the rules drive me to tears, especially as I do a lot of proof-reading of technical documents at work. Whether that's right or not, you can't have 4 Plough. The maximum of any terrain type is 3 (Purple p8 para 3) Regards, j |
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), I have answered you here:-
