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Post by ronisan on Oct 10, 2017 10:17:59 GMT
medievalthomas Hi Thomas, actually, I don't know what "HF", "MM", "LF" and "MF" stand means? Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Oct 5, 2017 11:21:08 GMT
i@stevie
Hello Stevie, thanks for the luck. We'll see :-)
Concerning your second diagram: We don't play it your way. Our Interpretation of the rules is, that element "red" needs to have enough movement allowance to pivot (like LH in figure 12a of the rulebook) to get part of its front edge in contact with part of the enemy front edge! If there isn't enough movement to pivot, element "red" ends movement short, prior to contacting element "blue", like it's told in the rulebook! See also element "A" in figure 10 of the rulebook: "Therefore, these contacts are not permitted and the move must be either cancelled or ended short, prior to contact.".
Playing it your way, you tell me that (in figure 10 of the rulebook) element "A" contacts element "X" and "X" pivots and conforms to "A"!? But the text is telling a different Story!
I think, the main difference between my and your interpretation is: For me 'conforming' is just a slide along an existing partial front edge to front edge contact to get the side edges of friendly elements congruent or (as it is named in the rules) 'lined up' to the side edges of enemy elements! (See also figure 12b of the rulebook: "...must conform by sliding and lining up to the group ...") For you 'conforming' seems to be a combination of pivoting and sliding.
But pivoting is part of the movement and not part of the 'conforming'!
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Oct 5, 2017 10:56:22 GMT
timurilank Hello Robert, the tournament is not in Ulm ... it's organized by one of the "Ulm-guys"! It takes place in "Geislingen an der Steige" north of Ulm! I'm sorry, I've no idea of any similar events near Wuppertal. Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Oct 5, 2017 6:25:41 GMT
Hello Stevie, thank you very much for your input. We don't play this 'Corner-contact-thing' this way ... we just stay away slighly and move into contact next bound. The day after tomorrow, I'll be at a 28mm-DBA-Tournament in Germany! www.ulmer-strategen.de/DBA-Events.htmI'm looking forward, how figure 13d will be discussed there. :-) Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Oct 3, 2017 17:20:02 GMT
Yes corner contact DOES trigger conforming. In many cases the non-moving element has to conform. Diagram 13 d) clearly shows this triggering the conforming rules. If the conforming rules aren't triggered than the non-moving elements don't need to conform. There is no indication that if the moving elements don't have enough MA to theoretically contact the front edge that the non-moving elements don't need to conform. The decision point is reached on contact with a front edge by either side's front edge or corner. Once this happens you apply the conforming rules to see who has to conform. If the moving element must conform but can't due so do to a lack of MA, the move is "doesn't happen" which I guess means a take back.
Much more troubling is whether the moving element has to attempt to conform as much as possible before the non-moving element must respond.
TomT
Hello TomT, I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you. Corner contact does not trigger conformation! You'll need a front edge (own) to edge (enemy) contact (figure 9a) to get into contact! No edge-to-corner or corner-to-edge contacting is allowed! Only as an exception if (page 9) "prevented by ... physically blocked by elements" (shown in figure 13d). Here, group A-C could have contacted the group Y-Z, but was (page 9) "prevented by ... physically blocked by elements" (group X-W!). And even there, there is no "conformation triggered", because the defender has the option (!) to conform or to fight with -1 as being overlapped.I think you're misinterpreting 'contacting'. In figure 12a, 'contacting' is not shown in position A1 only! If that would be your only move to get into contact, it wouldn't be allowed. 'Contacting' is finished after the movement is completed (!) in A2 (own front edge contacting enemy front edge!). 'Conforming' is shown in A2 (beginning position) and A3 (ending position)! Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 29, 2017 11:27:23 GMT
HEUREKA! Hello folks, finally I got it now (for me - personally!). Thanks to Mr. "Super Stevie" and his "DETAILED CRIB SHEETS for DBA 3.0" I'm enlighted now concerning figure 13d)! For me, Stevie's "If a lack of movement prevents any of the above, contact can't happen." is much more understandable than Mr. Barker's "If this is not possible, the move does not happen".See my attachments. So - corner contact doesn't trigger conformation! You have to have enough movement allowance to make a "hypothetical legal (own front edge) contact". Like in all the figures from 12a) - 12d), 13a) - 13c) and 13e) ... they all need/show a (even partial) front edge to front edge contact first! Cheers, Ronald Attachments:
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Post by ronisan on Sept 26, 2017 15:46:08 GMT
Hello, lkmjbc,
thanks for the link
ancientwargaming.wordpress.com/dba_resources/
I didn't know that one yet!
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 26, 2017 8:11:53 GMT
medievalthomas: "Your not wrong in doing so as Phil has said the rules control, the diagrams only illustrate (but I generally ignore this and treat the Diagrams as rules)."Hi, thanks for your reply. Well, "what rules" ... the rules or the diagrams? That's interesting. Please take a look at my sketch attached (I know it's under the wrong topic here, but I'm curious). Q: Is the LH part of the group of Psiloi? A: (according to the rules): Yes. A: (according to the diagrams): No. Cheers, Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by ronisan on Sept 26, 2017 7:53:20 GMT
Hello lkmjbc,
thanks for your input. 1. You said: front to corner does trigger conformation? But figure 10 explains, that front to corner is not enough to trigger conformation! You have to get the friendly front edge into contact with the enemy front, flank or rear edge! Even if your group contacts a single element, you have to get your front edge into contact with the enemy front, flank or rear edge! A single element contacted just at his front corner does not conform ... that's not a legal contact.
2. "If conforming to a front edge by contractors is prevented by part-element spacing between enemy or physically blocked by elements, terrain or a table edge; contacted elements or groups must either conform or fight as if in full contact and overlapped." This situation is illustrated exactly in figure 13c)! Making contact (front edge to front edge) but conforming is prevented. But in figure 13d) even making contact is prevented!
For english being not my first language - I apologize in advance for any obscurities.
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 25, 2017 16:40:07 GMT
Hello medievalthomas, I don't understand the figure 13d) on page 23 also. For me, it's not a legal contact. The attacker would need to spend two PIPs instead of just one! Either (see attachment): 1. Spear "A" moves for one PIP as a single element in mutual front edge contact with "X". With a second PIP Spears-group "B(+C)" move in front edge contact with "Y" and slide as much as possible to the left. Leaving "A" unable to recoil. or 2. Spear "B(+C)" move for one PIP as a group in mutual front edge contact with "Y". With a second PIP Spears "A" moves in front edge contact with "X" and slides as much as possible to the right. Leaving "B" unable to recoil. Why and where is it written in the rules, that contacting an enemy corner is sufficient for Close Combat? On page 9: "If conforming to a front edge by contactors is prevented ..." - it doesn't read "If contact to a front edge is prevented ..."!?!?! So, there is a need to get into (even partial) front edge to front edge contact before conforming! All the figures from 12a) - 12d), 13a) - 13c) and 13e) ... they all need/show a front edge to front edge contact first! Cheers, Ronald. Attachments:
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Post by ronisan on Sept 19, 2016 14:38:21 GMT
... Or does it mean - as I believe it does - that the bonus for defending the bank of a non-paltry river doesn't apply at the point where a road crosses the river - regardless of whether the crossing is a bridge or a ford?
Menacus
@ Menacus Hi, that's exactly what I tried to explain: ... I play it this way: ... +1 if in close combat defending any but a paltry river's bank (not on a road! ... which means ... not standing at a ford(or bridge) !) Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 17, 2016 10:38:34 GMT
Hello jdesmond.
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill or defending any but a paltry river's bank off-road.
I play it this way: +1 if in close combat uphill (higher position than the opponent) +1 if in close combat defending any but a paltry river's bank (not on a road! ... which means ... not standing at a ford!)
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 15, 2016 8:07:20 GMT
Hi,
an element in 'rear support' is part of the frontal combat. It can be contacted on its flank and that contact is treated as being a flank contact on the front element. Combat is taking place between elements in opposite position. Imagine rear support as one big melee (think of it as the 'plus' for your Combat Factor!)
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 8, 2016 11:12:43 GMT
Hello righteousaussiegamer, well - the way I play it is: ART in BUA shooting on enemy element outside ... +2 vs. foot and vs. mtd. ART in BUA being shot at and shooting back ... +2 vs. foot and vs. mtd. plus +4 inside BUA (a kind of 'cover'!) = +6 vs. foot and vs. mtd. If your ART (outside the BUA) sees/reaches the enemy ART (inside the BUA) ... it can see/reach your ART as well, doesn't it? Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 7, 2016 8:50:55 GMT
Hi,
in a BUA ART splits up, because it has to occupy all the walls! So you get just +2 (in your bound and in your opponents bound).
Cheers. Ronald.
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