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Post by jdesmond on Sept 17, 2016 0:13:54 GMT
Salutations, friends, Romans, countrymen, and other gentlefolk,
Methinks we have a sentence which could use either one or two commas:
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill or defending any but a paltry river's bank off-road. Should it say:
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill, or defending any but a paltry river's bank, off-road. (road not only negates the river bank's defense bonus, at the ford, but also negates the 'uphill along the road' defensive bonus.)
or
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill, or defending any but a paltry river's bank off-road. (my best guess at the meaning)
(and as I would print it as)
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill or defending any but a paltry river's bank off-road.
Conclusive proof of one thesis or the other is sought
Yours, John
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 17, 2016 8:12:22 GMT
John,
I would play it that the uphill bonus still applies if the troops in combat are on a road. They are still going to be uphill, whereas a road through a stream denotes a ford and there really isn't much in the way of a riverbank to defend at that point.
Having said that, I can't remember ever seeing a road placed across a hill in any of the games that I have played in the 12 years since I was first introduced to the rules.
Menacus S
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Post by ronisan on Sept 17, 2016 10:38:34 GMT
Hello jdesmond.
+1 If in close combat; and either uphill or defending any but a paltry river's bank off-road.
I play it this way: +1 if in close combat uphill (higher position than the opponent) +1 if in close combat defending any but a paltry river's bank (not on a road! ... which means ... not standing at a ford!)
Cheers, Ronald.
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Post by bob on Sept 17, 2016 22:32:11 GMT
The plus one bonus for defending a riverbank applies even if there is a ford that the element is in. Ford is not dry land, so the element defending the bank is fighting an element in the water. Perhaps, a paltry river still has some water in it as well. This type of river is explicitly eliminated from the tactical factor. There's no indication that a ford is equal to a paltry river. If an element is crossing a bridge and fighting enemy then there is no plus one bonus for the element not on the bridge as The opponent is not in water
"An element is defending the bank if it is entirely on land and its close combat opponent is at least partly in the water. "
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Post by txwargamer on Sept 17, 2016 23:14:56 GMT
The plus one bonus for defending a riverbank applies even if there is a ford that the element is in. Ford is not dry land, so the element defending the bank is fighting an element in the water. Perhaps, a paltry river still has some water in it as well. This type of river is explicitly eliminated from the tactical factor. There's no indication that a ford is equal to a paltry river. If an element is crossing a bridge and fighting enemy then there is no plus one bonus for the element not on the bridge as The opponent is not in water "An element is defending the bank if it is entirely on land and its close combat opponent is at least partly in the water. " We play it as Bob describes.
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Post by menacussecundus on Sept 18, 2016 8:50:02 GMT
The plus one bonus for defending a riverbank applies even if there is a ford that the element is in. Ford is not dry land, so the element defending the bank is fighting an element in the water. Perhaps, a paltry river still has some water in it as well. This type of river is explicitly eliminated from the tactical factor. There's no indication that a ford is equal to a paltry river. If an element is crossing a bridge and fighting enemy then there is no plus one bonus for the element not on the bridge as The opponent is not in water "An element is defending the bank if it is entirely on land and its close combat opponent is at least partly in the water. " That's interesting Bob. However, the wording of the rule is "defending anything but a paltry river's bank off-road" [my emphasis].
What does "off-road" mean here? One doesn't get the +1 bonus for defending the banks of a paltry river. So does the qualification "off-road" mean that the bonus does apply if a player is defending the banks of a paltry river at a ford (i.e. where the elements are on a road)? Or does it mean - as I believe it does - that the bonus for defending the bank of a non-paltry river doesn't apply at the point where a road crosses the river - regardless of whether the crossing is a bridge or a ford?
Incidentally, what is the tactical move distance of a column of LH crossing a non-paltry river at a ford? 4BW because the element is only in good going or 1BW because its front edge is in a non-paltry river for part of the move?
Menacus
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Post by timurilank on Sept 18, 2016 9:22:28 GMT
menacussecundus wrote:
"What does "off-road" mean here? One doesn't get the +1 bonus for defending the banks of a paltry river. So does the qualification "off-road" mean that the bonus does apply if a player is defending the banks of a paltry river at a ford (i.e. where the elements are on a road)? Or does it mean - as I believe it does - that the bonus for defending the bank of a non-paltry river doesn't apply at the point where a road crosses the river - regardless of whether the crossing is a bridge or a ford?"
This is our understanding as well.
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Post by ronisan on Sept 19, 2016 14:38:21 GMT
... Or does it mean - as I believe it does - that the bonus for defending the bank of a non-paltry river doesn't apply at the point where a road crosses the river - regardless of whether the crossing is a bridge or a ford?
Menacus
@ Menacus Hi, that's exactly what I tried to explain: ... I play it this way: ... +1 if in close combat defending any but a paltry river's bank (not on a road! ... which means ... not standing at a ford(or bridge) !) Cheers, Ronald.
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