Moving into overlap with Psiloi

“Never give up! Never surrender!” (yes, I’ve just watched the film “Galaxy Quest” again. )
I’m game for continuing this debate.

Added words. What it actually says is:-
“Any enemies in any mutual flank edge contact overlap each other whether in close combat or not.”


No, I’m following the rules, word-for-word, exactly as they are written:-
“The general principle is that troops that would contact in real life do so in the game
 so that moving a front-edge into contact with enemy always results in combat.”
      * quote: “troops that would contact in real life do so in the game”
　　* quote: “moving a front-edge into contact with enemy always results in combat.”
This raises the following question:-
What happens if you make contact but the front-edge is NOT in contact?
Answer: see Figure 16a.

And what has ‘Turning To Face’ got to do with it? Quote:-
“Immediately after the movement phase, elements contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge
 turn to face the first enemy element to contact them (unless they are already in full front edge contact
 with another enemy element, or providing rear support) (see figure 14a).”
But we are not talking about anyone having front-edge contact.
We are talking about corner-to-corner and mutual side-edge contacts.


Irrelevant. Figure 10 says that each Cavalry element’s maximum move distance has been exceeded.
There is no such thing as an 'illegal contact' (otherwise Figure 11 would be illegal).
It's the failure to conform that makes a move illegal.
And page 9 says at the end of the move phase someone must conform in either:-
　　Some sort of front-edge contact position (options a, b, or c)
　                                 　 ---OR---
　　In an overlap position (option d), otherwise the contact will be illegal.
...and page 10 says an overlap is corner-to-corner contact, or mutual side-edge contact.

Over to you...

But they do overlap each other! Page 10 clearly states " Any enemies in any mutual flank edge contact overlap each other whether in close combat or not." This is unambiguous. Overlap is independent of close combat. It just doesn't mean anything unless there is close combat, where it would provide the tactical factor. I can't see why PB would write this rule in this way unless he specifically wanted elements to be able to move into this position regardless of close combat. I think that it is good to remind ourselves that PB doesn't consider the diagrams the rules but rather just aids to understand the rules. Most of the time this is a moot point but it is important when you need to clear some space for another element to attack the front of the enemy or if you want to exploit a hole in the enemy line with fast moving troops.
Maybe this should go to the FAQ committee? 

Cheers

Jim

: Exactly! Thank you lesp1964.

That situation is already covered in the page 10 “Turning To Face” section Baldie:-
“Existing contacts are adjusted by moving the elements forward, back or the minimum sideways to maintain contact.”

Look, if people want to imagine there is some sort of mysterious invisible force field
surrounding elements that can only be switched off by making front-edge contact
(thus triggering close combat), then by all means please continue to do so.
Don’t let me or anyone else put you off. Everyone should be allowed to play the
way they want, that’s why we have House Rules.

Speaking of which, it must seem like I’m being a bit of an hypocrite here,
as I am notorious for inventing and using various different House Rules.
But at least when I use a House Rule I have the honesty to openly admit
that I’m not playing by the rules as written.

Everyone should be allowed to play in their own way.

An afterthought.

if people want to imagine there is some sort of mysterious invisible force field
surrounding elements that can only be switched off by making front-edge contact
(thus triggering close combat), this would have one positive benefit...

                                   Wb  Wb  Wb
                                   Wb  Wb  Wb


                                      　  Ps
　　
                                   Ax   Ax   Ax
　　
The flanking Warbands couldn’t ‘hard flank’ the Psiloi because of the Ax Threat Zones.
And they also couldn’t move into mutual side-edge contact with the Psiloi, or even into
corner-to-corner contact (which would have no effect anyway) unless the centre
Warband first moves into front-edge contact to switch off this mysterious force field.

In effect, it would be as if the Psiloi were spread out in a long thin unseen skirmish
line that covered the entire front of all three Warband columns.

What a pity it’s not what the rules say.
(Anyone care to suggest this as a House Rule?... )

One of the benefits of these discussions is that it makes you read and re-read the rules. On page 9, in "Moving into contact with enemy", the second sentence states "At the end of the movement phase..." Does that mean that you adjudicate the legality of the contact only after all movement is complete? If so, you can make room by moving into overlap and then moving into frontal contact.
Thoughts?

Cheers

Jim

I agree. But I'm sure I've seen them played differently.