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Post by Baldie on Jul 21, 2020 16:03:53 GMT
Tony, it was your DBA video series that raised this issue for me. They are extremely influential in showing new players, and even a lot of not-so-new players, how the game should be played. They are a great initiative and i hope you keep them coming. However I was concerned at the inevitable small variations that were creeping into the game. Things like this don't matter when both players agree, but they can cause difficulties in tournaments so I was keen to see if this issue could be resolved. This might be a continental difference. I don't care either way what the interpretation is, just wanted to state that I have never seen anyone play it any other way. Maybe it is a hold over from 2.2 as those of us who played many games of DBA 2.2 find ourselves have to unlearn what we have practiced over the years. In the past I have brought up issues like this to the FAQ group, but the last two times it seems to go nowhere. In order to avoid frustration, I have chosen to continue to push forward with how WE play in our videos as I do not want to retrain everyone in vain unless an "official" decision comes down from the FAQ group on this. I am delighted I only played 2 or 3 games of 2.2 so didnt know the rules that well. My biggest issue is playing many games similar to DBA but all subtly different in places to confuse me. |
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Post by chaotic on Jul 21, 2020 21:37:51 GMT
I don't think we need to worry with this... This has never been an issue in any tournament I have attended or hosted. I have done a few. If it gets to be a large issue in tournaments, then the FAQ team can review it again. Joe Collins This might also be a continental difference, but I find that the issue of whether an element is uphill comes up fairly often. It is usually resolved amicably so it doesn't become a large issue, but it might become one if different interpretations become entrenched. I'm sure the FAQ team has enough to do and IMHO does a good job. It is up to you whether you choose prevention or cure. |
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Post by martin on Jul 22, 2020 12:35:43 GMT
I don't think we need to worry with this... This has never been an issue in any tournament I have attended or hosted. I have done a few. If it gets to be a large issue in tournaments, then the FAQ team can review it again. Joe Collins Hi Joe The ‘who’s uphill’ debate used to pop up regularly in UK tournaments before the world imploded [....to the extent where I (almost) stopped placing hills (along with my other least fave terrain piece, the river) ]. A long debate on Fanaticus dealt with the issue well, but I cannot for the life of me find the thread....Diades may know where it’s hiding. I’ve messaged him to ask. The issues tend to result from those of us who bring ‘uphill’ definitions from other wargames and apply them to DBA, where I think PB’s definition is not always as those players would expect. Not better, not worse, just different, especially with the definition being very much based on front edge position, not the position of the bulk of the element base. Martin ps...I think we usually play ‘3’ from the original poster’s question |
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Post by stevie on Jul 22, 2020 14:15:42 GMT
From a rule lawyer’s point of view, page 6, paragraph 7, the very last sentence, clearly says:- “All hills slope up to a centre line crest and give a close combat advantage if part of a front edge is upslope of all of its opponents.” Now if players wish to ignore the word “ part”, they are free to do so... ...but then they are not playing by the rules as written. (Perhaps I could get a job as one of Johnny Depp’s lawyers...  ) |
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Post by hammurabi70 on Jul 22, 2020 22:17:29 GMT
From a rule lawyer’s point of view, page 6, paragraph 7, the very last sentence, clearly says:- “All hills slope up to a centre line crest and give a close combat advantage if part of a front edge is upslope of all of its opponents.” Now if players wish to ignore the word “ part”, they are free to do so... ...but then they are not playing by the rules as written. (Perhaps I could get a job as one of Johnny Depp’s lawyers... )And the other important words are front edge. As the front edge of MY element is not on the hill then NO part of the front edge of YOUR element can be on the hill.  |
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Post by sheffmark on Jul 23, 2020 13:00:24 GMT
As hammurabi70 says, some part of the line of contact has to be at least partly on the hill for someone to claim the uphill advantage.
Unlike Martin I had never had any problem with uphill until a tournament earlier this year when two issues came up in quick succession, but both were about the shape of hills and how you decided who was uphill when both units were on the hill. This led to a discussion about how to determine uphill and I think that's the thread Martin is thinking of.
It was the Bakewell Wimps Winter Warmer 15 Feb 2020 thread in case anyone is interested.
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Post by Baldie on Jul 23, 2020 19:43:42 GMT
It was the Bakewell Wimps Winter Warmer 15 Feb 2020 thread in case anyone is interested. Ah the good old days |
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Post by martin on Jul 23, 2020 21:52:57 GMT
As hammurabi70 says, some part of the line of contact has to be at least partly on the hill for someone to claim the uphill advantage. Unlike Martin I had never had any problem with uphill until a tournament earlier this year when two issues came up in quick succession, but both were about the shape of hills and how you decided who was uphill when both units were on the hill. This led to a discussion about how to determine uphill and I think that's the thread Martin is thinking of. It was the Bakewell Wimps Winter Warmer 15 Feb 2020 thread in case anyone is interested. This one - fanaticus.boards.net/thread/2399/bakewell-wimps-winter-warmer-2020?page=3 |
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Post by Cromwell on Jul 24, 2020 7:21:33 GMT
I now know why I live in Norfolk! Nice and flat with plenty of marshes!
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Post by martin on Jul 24, 2020 8:24:38 GMT
I now know why I live in Norfolk! Nice and flat with plenty of marshes! “...awfully flat, Norfolk”, in fact 🧐 |
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Post by stevie on Jul 24, 2020 9:40:08 GMT
It’s not entirely necessary to have the ‘highest point/hill peak’ in the dead centre of the hill you know. Having such a point off-centre makes some interesting hills...and indeed is often more realistic. Take a large hill 6 by 3 BW in size for example. The peak could be 1 BW from the eastern perimeter, making the western slope much longer and deeper before the ‘peak’ is reached and passed. We have found that in practise having the peak too close to the hill perimeter is not a good idea. If the peak actually touches the perimeter, the hill has a side-on shape like a right angled triangle, with practically a vertical face where the peak touches the edge of the hill (although the hill is still considered to be entirely all gentle or all difficult going for game purposes). This is fine from one direction, but recoil from this virtual cliff-face and you pass beyond the peak, allowing any pursuing enemy to gain the up-slope advantage. Hills work best if after a recoil you remain up-slope of your opponent. Oh, and to see who is in front of or behind the crest for command or shooting purposes, simple... ...just draw a line parallel to your front-edge through the ‘highest point/hill peak’. Give it a try, as it makes hills more thought-provoking than the usual old boring symmetric hills... |
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Post by Baldie on Jul 24, 2020 16:39:00 GMT
The quest is of course a great hill with realistic shape and noticeable peaks that also holds your figs in place.
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Post by jim1973 on Jul 24, 2020 22:59:05 GMT
Because I know you're an advocate for random terrain selection stevie, you could even use an 8 sided die to rotate your asymmetric hills after terrain placement but before deployment. Your little general may get annoyed when he realises the long slope he was planning to defend is now pointing in the wrong direction!
Cheers
Jim
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Post by stevie on Jul 25, 2020 6:21:46 GMT
Actually Jim, from a defender’s point of view such randomness already happens ...
...as it’s the invader who gets to choose which direction the hill will be approached
(limited by any roads present of course).
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Post by sheffmark on Jul 25, 2020 11:32:48 GMT
The quest is of course a great hill with realistic shape and noticeable peaks that also holds your figs in place. Yea either that or a flat piece of wood with the hill drawn on it, eh?  |
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