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Post by sheffmark on Feb 19, 2020 17:48:18 GMT
I hope you are keeping dry, Diades. Shouldn’t you have written that last ‘uphill’ as ‘downhill’? Or am I becoming completely baffled by this thread and emails offering solutions? You mention a ridge line (something I am used to using), but on an oval hill with a crest line and with elements beside the crest line having the contact line perpendicular to the crest line, neither one is uphill if you measure to the nearest point on the crest. The line runs straight along the contact edge. One element is uphill if there is only a centre point. I think this is where I went wrong at Bakewell – I’m so used to using ridge line hills and this was the situation I was in. We were playing on my opponent’s huge unmarked felt hills. I am contemplating scrapping all my ridge line marked hills and making yet another set with only centre points. I have to say I’m getting some peculiar looking uphill positions playing with two bits of MDF and a piece of felt with a dot in the centre. Colin Firstly apologies. The line needs to be from the centre of the contacting edges, in fact anywhere along the edge other than the end, to ensure it goes through an element. If you draw the line from the contacting front edges, the line to the hilltop will pass through the Uphill element. If the line runs along the contact edge through neither element, either to the cone apex or the nearest point of a ridge line depending upon which hill depiction you have chosen, then neither is uphill. i use conical hills. If a ridge line is used, the method still works, but assumes the ridge is of constant height. If the ridge line is straddled by the contacting edges, then neither is uphill, they are both on the crest. The complication is that most people naturally envision a sloping ridge line. In this case the highest point of the ridge also has to be specified to address the straddle issue as a secondary discriminator. The description Colin, Mark S , Simon and I (with a nod to Scott) came up with was something like: To find which element is uphill, for conical hills, extend a line from the summit to the centre point on the line of contact. The first element the line contacts is uphill. For ridged hills I'd suggest the following: you define the 'summit' as the point on the ridge line which is the shortest distance to an element in contact. If an combat straddles a ridge line then the element with most of it's base on the other side of the ridge is uphill. These do give uphill in the most marginal of cases but hopefully it's clear. The only other query is whether you have to have all or any of your front combat edge actually on the hill? |
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Post by sheffmark on Feb 20, 2020 8:16:13 GMT
Just realised that
"If an combat straddles a ridge line then the element with most of it's base on the other side of the ridge is uphill" probably doesn't work due to different base depths.
So maybe we keep it simple and say the 'summit' is the point on the ridge line which is the shortest distance to the centre point on the line of contact. For fighting on the ridge line it will be under the combat, but should still work?
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Post by menacussecundus on Feb 20, 2020 10:35:55 GMT
..............The only other query is whether you have to have all or any of your front combat edge actually on the hill? The rules say that "hills ....give a close combat advantage if part of an element's front edge is upslope of all of its opponent." (p6) There is no mention of the entire front edge having to be on the hill, so I would say not. |
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Post by diades on Feb 20, 2020 20:11:56 GMT
To find which element is uphill, for conical hills, extend a line from the summit to the centre point on the line of contact. The first element the line contacts is uphill. For ridged hills I'd suggest the following: you define the 'summit' as the point on the ridge line which is the shortest distance to an element in contact. If an combat straddles a ridge line then the element with most of it's base on the other side of the ridge is uphill. These do give uphill in the most marginal of cases but hopefully it's clear. The only other query is whether you have to have all or any of your front combat edge actually on the hill? Mark, thanks. We are of an accord (certainly for conical hills). I also agree with Dennis, if any point of the contacting front edges is on a hill, then one element is potentially Uphill of the other. |
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Post by Simon on Feb 21, 2020 9:52:29 GMT
I agree that that is probably what the rules say but it feels a bit cheesey that you can be a mm or so on a hill and possibly get an up hill bonus. I note that other combat bonuses such as flank and rear supports require you to be wholly in the good going.
Simon from the Peak District - land of conical hills and ridges!
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Post by diades on Feb 22, 2020 10:33:54 GMT
I agree that that is probably what the rules say but it feels a bit cheesey that you can be a mm or so on a hill and possibly get an up hill bonus. I note that other combat bonuses such as flank and rear supports require you to be wholly in the good going. Simon from the Peak District - land of conical hills and ridges! ...and yet an element only needs a toe in any going to not be in good going... |
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