|
|
Post by zendor on Jun 7, 2020 18:10:53 GMT
I have some questions regarding the lining up procedure in Threat Zones.
If you don't mind, I would like to ask them sequentially in order to trace the logic and modify the next question based on the answer to the previous one. So, the first one. There are two Ax elements which are in colomn. One elemet is partly in TZ of Blades, the second is not. Is it possible for this group of two Ax to slide sideway as a one group move to line up with Blades element, and then to move in contact with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by ronisan on Jun 7, 2020 19:11:43 GMT
Hello Zendor, at first you move straight forward into contact and then sliding to the right to line up. it‘s an absolutely legal move👍. Cheers, Ronald
|
|
|
|
Post by paulisper on Jun 7, 2020 19:27:05 GMT
Yes, it’s legal, plus you can also use the fact that they’re a group to pull the single element across to conform to the group of Ax - sometimes tactically very useful...
P
|
|
|
|
Post by Baldie on Jun 7, 2020 20:17:09 GMT
However I dont think you could just slide the front aux to the right and not make contact and have the rear aux follow for the same pip.
You could probably do something similar with a couple of wheels.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jun 7, 2020 21:23:34 GMT
However I dont think you could just slide the front aux to the right and not make contact and have the rear aux follow for the same pip. You could probably do something similar with a couple of wheels. Actually, this kind of move is entirely possible. Tactical Moves, page 8, the last sentence of the third paragraph says:- “A group can only move forwards...No other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made,
even within a TZ, except to ‘pivot’ (see figure 12a), wheel and/or slide sideways to line-up in an enemy TZ,
or to conform in close combat (see figure 7a for movement options when in a TZ).”
This means Zendor’s Auxiliary column has two choices:- a) As Ronisan says, move straight forward to make contact with the single Blade. The single Blade, being contacted by a group, must shuffle sideways to do the conforming. (Conforming just means getting those front-corners touching each other) --- OR--- b) As Paulisper says, as part of the Aux column is in a TZ, first shuffle the entire group sideways. Then, if they wish, move forwards to contact the Blade, again ending the Movement Phase with those front-corners touching each other (see figure 11 for 'lining-up' without making contact). Thus, according to rules, both moves are completely legal. |
|
|
|
Post by zendor on Jun 7, 2020 21:29:23 GMT
Maybe I was not to accurate in the description, I'll specify. Can I stop my group at point 2 ? So, they'll just slide right to line up and stop there (as a one group move). Is it possibe? I'm based on this statment: "No other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made, even if within a TZ, except to pivot, wheel and/or slide sideways to line up in an enemy TZ, or to conform in close combat."
Upd: Stevie, has ahead me! Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by Roland on Jun 7, 2020 21:39:05 GMT
Maybe I was not to accurate in the description, I'll specify. Can I stop my group at point 2 ? So, they'll just slide right to line up and stop there (as a one group move). Is it possibe? I'm based on this statment: "No other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made, even if within a TZ, except to pivot, wheel and/or slide sideways to line up in an enemy TZ, or to conform in close combat."
Upd: Stevie, has ahead me! Thanks!
It would cost you 2 pips to do that |
|
|
|
Post by zendor on Jun 7, 2020 21:49:38 GMT
Well, I'll paraphrase. 1) Is it possible for the group being in TZ to slide sideways to line up as a whole group (using one move/PIP)? 2) If it is possible, does the whole group have to be in the enemy's TZ to make such slide to line up, or just only a part of the group is enough? Below are two examples for the second question (of course they are relevant only if the answer to the first question is positive). Do I understand correctly, that the slide to the left as a whole group (using one move/PIP) is possible in both examples?  And the lined up positions will be like that:  |
|
|
|
Post by Roland on Jun 7, 2020 22:02:50 GMT
not with one pip. Enemy threat zones aren't maglevs that allow you to just shimmy sideways and ignore pip constraints. If you were moving into combat then, yes. One Pip. If its a chorus line sashay then you have to pay the pip piper
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jun 7, 2020 22:37:31 GMT
Ah...I see what you are saying Roland.
The dialogue accompanying Figure 7a has these 1 PIP options for Warband-’B’:-
1. Halt
2. Slide sideways to line-up with Spear-’Y’
3. Move straight towards Spear-’Y’ but not make contact
4. A combination of 2 and 3 (i.e. sideways to line-up AND move towards ‘Y’ without making contact)
5. Move straight forwards to contact ‘Y’ then use the free sideways slide
6. Move straight back out of the TZ
What is not in this list is a combination of 2 and 5 (i.e. sideways to line-up AND move into contact)
So I was wrong...if Zendor’s Aux column wants to make contact it has no choice...
...it must use option 5 and move straight forwards into contact.
But it could do a combination of 2 and 3 for a single PIP...providing it doesn’t make contact.
As for Zendor’s new picture, this is more awkward; can an entire group line shuffle sideways for 1 PIP?
There is a hidden unwritten rule in DBA that implies that a group cannot be forced to break-up, except
when turning-to-face, or as a combat outcome, or if their owner wishes to do so.
This is implied in Figures 12c, 13c, 13d, and 13e.
But does this apply during you own bound, when you have the choice to do so or not?
Probably not.
So as Roland says, players have the choice of moving the entire group as one body, or split it into two
groups and thus pay two PIPs to move each part individually.
However...Tactical Moves, page 8, the last sentence of the third paragraph does say:-
“A group can only move forwards...No other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made,
even within a TZ, except to ‘pivot’, wheel and/or slide sideways to line-up in an enemy TZ,
or to conform in close combat.”
No mention here about having to break-up the group...it implies that the group stays together as a group.
So I'd say a group line can all shuffle sideways...
|
|
|
|
Post by ronisan on Jun 8, 2020 6:34:56 GMT
Hi folks, I agree with Stevie.👍
|
|
|
|
Post by sheffmark on Jun 8, 2020 6:46:10 GMT
As Stevie says I think the last sentence of the third paragraph on page 8 is perfectly clear.
“A group can only move forwards...No other changes in frontage, direction or facing can be made,
even within a TZ, except to ‘pivot’, wheel and/or slide sideways to line-up in an enemy TZ,
or to conform in close combat.”
It's talking about groups.
It says a group can slide sideways in a TZ to line up OR conform in close combat, so yes you can slide a group sideways to line up in an enemy TZ even if you don't make contact.
However if you didn't make contact I presume the sideways move would have to be measured as part of your move, as the extra sideways slide of up to 1 BW is only available after making contact (page 9 'Moving into contact with the enemy' 1st para).
|
|
|
|
Post by Roland on Jun 8, 2020 12:37:24 GMT
I still feel confident in my interpretation in that, as I see it, the sequence of movement is: move into contact with enemy _then_ adjust line to enemy. It does not come before the forward move but after. I also believe that my reading of the rule does a more effective job of honoring the spirit of what an element's "threat zone" is intended to represent. I don't see formed battle lines doing a lateral sashay right within charge distance of their enemy line.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jun 8, 2020 13:02:58 GMT
But Roland, if we are to play-by-the-rules-as-written, then we should use ALL the rules,
and not leave out the bits that we don’t agree with.
The rule is groups can only move straight forwards...
...except when they ‘pivot’, wheel, or slide sideways to line-up.
There is the rule...and there are the the exceptions to that rule...
|
|
|
|
Post by Roland on Jun 8, 2020 13:05:33 GMT
Talmudic scholarship, indeed. My reading of the rule doesn't leave any of the rules out. It simply clarifies ( and even simplifies). If we do it any other way then as has been stated above, the extra 1/2 BW lateral movement to conform would come from a groups movement rate _unless_ it was going to make contact in which case the lateral movement is free. Sorry. I find that too clunky. Gamers being gamers, I prefer 'Occam's razor' interpretations of rules, lest gamers start doing gamerly things.  |
|
