Group front corner moving into contact with oblique element

Hi Stevie,
I think it‘s just the old „troublemaker“ figure 13d, which doesn’t fit to Thomas‘ explanation of „group contacting a group… contact is illegal… must back off“?
Because 13a, 13b, 13c and 13e are perfect „front edge contacting enemy“-situations.

Ronald

RE: figure 13. Very important but somewhat, in DBX style, cryptic. Here a moving Group front edge has contacted a non-moving Group corner. By rule the moving Group must attempt to conform to the non-moving Group (according to me as much as possible). But it can't finish the conform due to other blocking Elements so the non-moving Group must finish the conform or fight as if Overlapped.

But wait says Flavis the rule lawyer: even if the blocking Elements were not present you don't have enough MA to hypothetically move into front edge to front edge flush contact so you couldn't have conformed anyway so the move is illegal!

So Solomon the Umpire must make a ruling. But will look in vain for any rule wisdom or even diagram wisdom.

Do you have to show the conforming was possible but for the blocking Elements to trigger the forced conform by the non-moving Group? Another dread corollary: I'm going to say tediously you must show the conforming was at least possible to trigger a forced conform. (But give feedback...)

But this has nothing to do with a front corner of a Group contacting a single Element front edge. Because this triggers the conforming rules and the single Element must conform. This is not a forced conform but a required conform. Despite this it requires no expenditure of MA. Knotty problem: what if the single Element can't normally make front edge contact? Here I'm OK with the conforming by the Art/WWg/CP because its the moving Group that made contact and we are just lining stuff up to fight.

TomT

This is a tricky one Tom, but I think it can all be made simple by keeping in mind a single word…
…’responsibility’.
Only those that have the ‘responsibility’ and duty to conform need sufficient movement to do so.

Let ‘s put this concept of ‘responsibility’ to the test shall we:-

When a group touches a single element, it is the single element that has the ‘responsibility’ of
doing the conforming, not the group (unless the single element is in Rough or Bad Going).
The moving group doesn’t need enough speed to conform, just enough movement to touch it.
Exception: mutual side edge contacts do not trigger conforming, and nor do front right to right
or front left to left corner-to-corner contacts (see Figure 16a), but left to right front corner
contacts WILL trigger conforming (see Figure 13d, Blade-X).

In Figure 13c stationary Blade-Y, being a single element, has the ‘responsibility’ of conforming.
But a physical lack of space prevents this, so it has no choice but to stand and be overlapped.
The moving group doesn’t need enough speed to conform, just enough movement to touch it.

In Figure 10 the moving Cavalry, being single elements, have the ‘responsibility’ of conforming.
However, they lack the movement to do so, and as page 9 Contacting The Enemy says at the
end of the Movement Phase someone must be in positions (a), (b), (c) or (d), the moves must
all stop short or they would be illegal.
(Note that it is not the corner contacts that are illegal, or Figure 12a would also be illegal,
but the failure to conform and end in positions (a), (b), (c) or (d) that prevents these moves)

In Figure 13d, even if the moving Spear group had an infinite amount of movement, it is
impossible for it to conform as a group, so it doesn’t have the ‘responsibility’ of conforming…
…the stationary non-Bounding Blade groups has that ‘responsibility’.
The moving group doesn’t need enough speed to conform, just enough movement to touch them.
(Note that conforming never splits-up a group: see Figures 13b, 13c, and 13d, and also post
fanaticus.boards.net/post/40362/ for details)

All the above may seem complicated, but it’s really quite simple.
Before you make contact, determine who will have the ‘responsibility’ of conforming.
Players do this anyway already.
And if your opponent has the ‘responsibility’, then just move into contact and let them worry about conforming!