Group front corner moving into contact with oblique element

Ha, ha, ha!…actually I’m a retired (but still gorgeous looking) I.T. Software Tester.
My job was to vigorously test software and make sure that it all worked properly.
And if any bugs or flaws were discovered, to send it back to the developers for fixing.

This is why I look on DBA 3.0 as a piece of software, a piece of software that has
been prematurely rushed into production and still has a few bugs and flaws in it.
And the FAQ rule clarifications is the ‘patch’ to try and fix these bugs and flaws.

Of course, even the ‘patch’ needs to be tested, and may itself have some bugs in it.

But banging my gavel to bring this court back into order, I can see why the FAQ
Development Team chose to make group front-edges, and not front-corners,
be the trigger for causing conforming.

Consider Figure 10 in the following situations:-
     * what if the right front-corner of the ‘X-Y Group’ had touched the left front-corner of ‘Cav-A’.
        Would that trigger ‘Cav-A’ to conform?
     * what if the right front-corner of the ‘X-Y Group’ had touched the right front-corner of ‘Cav-A’.
        Would that trigger ‘Cav-A’ to conform?
     * now look at Figure 16a…does corner-to-corner contact trigger conforming?

So sometimes corner-to-corner contact would cause conforming, and sometimes it wouldn’t.

The FAQ team chose to keep things simple, and decided that only a moving group’s front-edge,
and not their front-corner, triggers conforming.

The moving group does have several options.
They could wheel a bit to the right and then back to the left to get their front-edge touching…
They could shift sideways a bit once they enter the enemy TZ to get their front-edge touching…
They could even choose to split their group and move their elements individually if they wish…
…so they are not blocked entirely.

All-in-all, I think the FAQ offers a simple solution to an otherwise difficult to resolve situation.

(However, my ongoing guerilla war against the utterly stupid River Rule miss-interpretation continues…🤪)

Hang on…are you saying that in Figure 16a, neither ‘Wb-A’ nor ‘Bow-Y’ can move straight forwards,
but they must, MUST, conform and get their front-edges into contact, because their corners touch?
And in Figure 6c, ‘Cav-B’ cannot move straight forwards because it too has its corners touching?
Wouldn’t this make ALL overlaps impossible, as ANY contact must result in front-edge contact,
despite the page 9 “Moving Into Contact” option (d) saying you can end a move phase with front
corner-to-corner or mutual side-edges touching?

I’m pretty sure most players would say that is wrong.

I do understand your point of view…you assume the “who conforms” rules apply in EVERY situation.
But the “who conforms” rules are a little bit vague, and can be miss-interpreted in this way.
So the FAQ attempts to tighten things up by going into more detail.

Merely ‘touching’ any enemy does not always result in front-edges ending in contact.
Some contacts (such as corner-to-corner and mutual side-edges) do not trigger conforming.

So what happens when a two-deep column moves forward into mutual side-edge contact with an enemy…?
…an enemy that may be a single one on it’s own or is part of a long group line?

Would you have the single element do the conforming, and move its front-edge into the side of the column?
Or have it move some distance backwards and then sideways so that both front-edges are touching?

“Turning To Face” won’t apply, as that says “...elements contacted by an enemy front-edge…”.

Isn’t it better to just accept that corner-to-corner and mutual side-edge contacts do not trigger conforming?

Then what on Earth is page 9, “Moving Into Contact”, option (d),
and page 10, “Overlapping”, all about!? 🤪

Look…since I was not part of the original Development Group,
nor am I a member of the FAQ Team, perhaps we should leave it
up to them to tell us the reason for the FAQ Rule Clarifications.

Or failing that, maybe Tournament Organisers would like to tell
us how they would adjudicate things during their competitions.

The corner contact situation is tricky. It comes down to what triggers conforming and no the rules are not clear.

In figure 10 a single element is contacting a group and so must conform. But the single element cannot conform because it doesn't have enough MA to conform. This correct for single elements contacting Groups.

But suppose in figure 10 the Aux was a single element and the Cav was in a Group. Now when the Cav Group corner contacts its the single element that must conform and in this case this a "free" move (MA irrelevant).

From figure 10 we know a corner front edge is a legal contact and would trigger conforming.

This implies that as a legal contact that triggers conforming if its a Group that corners a single element than the single element must conform.

I have gone back and forth on this and for some time thought you have to get some part of front edge in contact (see figure 13) but for practical reasons now get the limitations of this concept. The problem arsis when a Group moves straight toward a cockeyed single element. By doing so its corner contacts and forces conforming. If you don't have this concept than the Group literally needs to make an awkward wheel to get its front edge parallel to the single element often breaking up the Group. This brings back the old days of a bunch of cockeyed single elements preventing Group contact in very unrealistic ways.

I should have thought through this when it came up with the FAQ group, which is often an endless debating society unable to reach a conclusion so I give in just to get some answer. Since "we can't figure it out either" doesn't seem like a great response.

So to get things to work as intended elements need to be able to move straight forward toward contact and trigger conforming with their front corners to a front edge of an opponent (corner to corner NEVER triggers conforming). Also note this only applies to Groups contacting single Elements. a Group contacting a Group must conform (likewise single Elements as in figure 10) though you can front corner contact you must bring your front edge into contact as part of the conforming process and must spend MA to do so.

TomT

Hello Simon,

I’m playing that situation according to the rulebook … which means:
A front corner (of a group!) contacting a rear or side enemy edge (of a single element!) triggers conforming (of that single enemy element!) and is a legal contact.

Of course … 
A front corner (of a group or single element!) contacting a rear or side enemy edge (of a group!) never triggers conforming (of the „bounding“/attacking group or single element) and is an illegal contact.

Regards,
Ronald

So DBA 3 was made by Microsoft? 

Jim

PS Viva la (river-rule) revolucion!