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Post by Baldie on Oct 10, 2023 19:27:40 GMT
Yet again Alex spins in his lost tomb.
3 games vs Thebans
Game 1 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled
Game 2 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex drumbled
Game 3 Alex crushed a spear element and it looked grim for the Thebans until a double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled
Aactually very enjoyable games
Alex is going to have a crack at Lart next
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Post by skb777 on Oct 10, 2023 20:47:45 GMT
The problem with the Alexandrian Macedonian is universal regardless of which gaming system you use, it's always too small as the units are expensive and you are generally pigeon holed into having pike in deep formations.
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Post by snowcat on Oct 11, 2023 1:58:20 GMT
In ADLG, Pike are based in depth by default, so you're not halving the relative frontage every time you field a proper 'unit' of Pike.
However, Pike are decent troops and, depending how good you want them to be (e.g. Elite), you will usually pay relatively more for them than a unit of light troops or skirmishers.
But this is the case with all good troops in ADLG, so the balance overall is usually maintained.
Because of the DBA 12 element system, this relative army frontage/balance gets a bit bent, even broken. Not sure how to fix it other than redesigning how Pk work in DBA.
(And some folks think it all works perfectly fine, so...)
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Post by dumarest on Oct 11, 2023 8:24:45 GMT
Would making Pikes double units solve the problem?
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Post by skb777 on Oct 11, 2023 8:37:09 GMT
In ADLG, Pike are based in depth by default, so you're not halving the relative frontage every time you field a proper 'unit' of Pike. However, Pike are decent troops and, depending how good you want them to be (e.g. Elite), you will usually pay relatively more for them than a unit of light troops or skirmishers. But this is the case with all good troops in ADLG, so the balance overall is usually maintained. Because of the DBA 12 element system, this relative army frontage/balance gets a bit bent, even broken. Not sure how to fix it other than redesigning how Pk work in DBA. (And some folks think it all works perfectly fine, so...) +1 fir side support? They should be able to fight the same depth as spear. I get the ying and yang concept, trying to give a plus and a negative to everything. So the negative to Pk is you are always in danger of being outflanked, the plus you get +6 CF.
Nrver played ADLG so I can't comment, MeG in it's smaller offering (Pacto) again you have to have Pk 3 deep in units of 3.
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Post by hodsopa on Oct 11, 2023 8:40:41 GMT
A few years ago I did a refight of Chaeronea in BBDBA which Philip won. It was because with only 48" board width for 36 elements, and historical terrain on each flank, there wasn't room for all the hoplites in one rank. What was the terrain like in your games, Baldie?
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Post by Simon on Oct 11, 2023 9:54:22 GMT
I guess it is simply because none of us are as good as Alexander!!
Cheers
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Post by snowcat on Oct 11, 2023 10:45:15 GMT
Would making Pikes double units solve the problem? No. Unfortunately it swings things too far the other way. |
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Post by Baldie on Oct 11, 2023 11:39:54 GMT
A few years ago I did a refight of Chaeronea in BBDBA which Philip won. It was because with only 48" board width for 36 elements, and historical terrain on each flank, there wasn't room for all the hoplites in one rank. What was the terrain like in your games, Baldie? Couple Alex could anchor a flank the last one was more open Theban 8 sp also helped. Glad I could outwit my opponent anyway, he is a right fool. |
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 11, 2023 12:29:55 GMT
Yet again Alex spins in his lost tomb. 3 games vs Thebans Game 1 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Game 2 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex drumbled Game 3 Alex crushed a spear element and it looked grim for the Thebans until a double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Aactually very enjoyable games Alex is going to have a crack at Lart next How problematic was the automatic pursuit in your games? I find the short line coupled with the inability to maintain even that is a fatal double-whammy! Jim |
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Post by skb777 on Oct 11, 2023 12:43:45 GMT
Yet again Alex spins in his lost tomb. 3 games vs Thebans Game 1 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Game 2 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex drumbled Game 3 Alex crushed a spear element and it looked grim for the Thebans until a double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Aactually very enjoyable games Alex is going to have a crack at Lart next How problematic was the automatic pursuit in your games? I find the short line coupled with the inability to maintain even that is a fatal double-whammy! Jim The automatic pursuit just feels like a punishment more than anything. |
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Post by skb777 on Oct 11, 2023 12:44:31 GMT
I guess it is simply because none of us are as good as Alexander!! Cheers Or lucky dice |
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Post by paddy649 on Oct 11, 2023 14:15:20 GMT
My experience with Alex or Philip vs any Greek army is very similar.
Mostly his only hope is a headlong charge into the spear line with the Companions and then exploit the hole. More often then not Alex dies.
Against II/5b Athenians the Littoral terrain gives the Greeks an edge. Against II/5c Theban, the deep spear out phalanx the pike. Against II/5d Thessalian the extra Cavalry unit wins the mounted battle for the Greeks and the extra length of the Spear line wins out. Against II/5e Aitolian he doesn’t loose as quickly IF he wins terrain but mostly this is just a game of both sides playing “keep away.” It’s amazing that the Macedonians ever won regional hegemony.
However, Alex also struggles to defeat II/7 Later Archemenid Persian if the Persian player uses his Cavalry correctly.
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Post by skb777 on Oct 11, 2023 14:43:50 GMT
LAP is one the great DBA armies, it has almost everything you need.
Forget about putting Alexander in a flank and put him in the infantry line with a 2 deep okie either side. You have 2 turns, 3 if you are lucky, to put a hole in the other side before you flank collapsed.
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Post by Baldie on Oct 11, 2023 14:44:26 GMT
Yet again Alex spins in his lost tomb. 3 games vs Thebans Game 1 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Game 2 double ranked pike got flanked and Alex drumbled Game 3 Alex crushed a spear element and it looked grim for the Thebans until a double ranked pike got flanked and Alex crumbled Aactually very enjoyable games Alex is going to have a crack at Lart next How problematic was the automatic pursuit in your games? I find the short line coupled with the inability to maintain even that is a fatal double-whammy! Jim Not as problematic as you would think as they rarely won a combat |
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