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Post by jim1973 on Oct 2, 2020 13:24:47 GMT
Here's what I did (products listed are readily available at Bunnings in Australia):
1) Watch the videos 2) Iron out then nail canvas drop cloth to scrap MDF (Unipro Canvas Dropcloth 1.5mx0.6m). This was to stop warping. 3) Mix acrylic caulk (Parfix white gap filler 475g) with cheap acrylic paint (Crafty Colour Raw Umber) and fine sand (sift the sand!). Use the ratios given by the Terrain Tutor (awesome youtube channel). I used a splash of isopropyl alcohol to make the mix easier. The white of the filler makes colouring difficult and you end up with a pale tan goop. 4) Spread over the canvas evenly. If you didn't sift the sand the occasional large chunk will gouge lines but they are easily fixed. Should get about 50x50cm coverage. 5) Allow to cure!!!! 6) Mark off sections with a marker for your terrain pieces. 7) Use extra caulk at this time to create texture. Really easy to make plough! Allow to cure!!!! 8) Paint, flock, decorate, etc. Allow to dry. 9) Seal with spray Matt sealer (Boyle) 10) Cut it out. Sharp scissors. Sharp blades. (Underneath of a coffee cup makes a great temporary sharpening stone!) 11) Paint edges with small mix of dark brown paint, PVA and water if you don't want the material showing or you want to reinforce the edges against fraying.
I got 4 pieces of plough, 5 generic pieces (I cover them with loose trees, buildings or bushes as required) and 3 marshes (I needed two applications of the Realist Water from Back 2 Bas-ix to get the effect) with some left over waiting for inspiration. They are about 2mm high. No more toppling. Flexible and sit flat.
Now for another round to get roads, dunes, etc
Cheers
Jim
PS Would love to put up photos but can't get them on
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 2, 2020 12:57:55 GMT
Have you had that feeling when your newly painted Vikings pursue the Welsh warband into terrain only to fall over backwards from the lip and bend their spears? (I'm looking at you Splintered Light! Beautiful figures). Heavy Infantry on 15mm bases are top heavy and topple easily. Two years ago I did all of my terrain on 6mm cork tile. I spent hours carving the edges to what I thought was an easy slope but the still toppled, much to my frustration. But then I stumbled on the following videos on youtube using acrylic caulk to make battlemats: Terrain TutorTerrain Tutor 2Terrain Tutor 3RFDHobbyOnce you watch these you can make your own battlemat. But I got the next idea for DBA terrain that won't flip your heavy infantry.
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 2, 2020 1:14:43 GMT
I've commented before that the camp rules limit modelling and therefore appeal for new players. My view (and it is just my view, not RAW) is that if the camp is modelled, it is defended. You can place an element behind the camp if you want to garrison it and it doesn't fit. If not garrisoned, you can still have an element of camp followers (again, leave them behind the camp if they don't fit) to sally forth. Only after the sally is the camp undefended. But even undefended, it still has a TZ and you still have to stop when you touch the edge. But it's not a threat to safety nor a stop due to combat. It's a threat to discipline as troops want to plunder the camp! The element stops because it is engaged in the age old tradition of finders/keepers!
My guess is that PB didn't want players just putting a piece of felt on the board as their camp. But the rules as written are too restrictive to players who actually want to model. I did make empty and full camps initially, but I've given up on them. Sure, lugging a piece of the Great Wall across Eurasia to sleep dry in Gaul raises a chuckle but who cares? Not everybody has time to make home/away, permamnent/temporary camps. They don't add that much to the game.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 14:39:32 GMT
I've bought from Legio Heroica. Even to Australia, the service was impeccable!
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 13:11:17 GMT
What figures will you use?
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 13:10:39 GMT
Here you are:
" The rycerz "knights" (alternatively called kopijnicy "lancers") were supported by czeladz "followers", initially armed with crossbow and so called strzelcy "shooters", but by 1400 also with a lance. Czeladz at first drew up in a separate line behind the rycerz, but after 1400 bodies of rycerz and czeladz often alternated in a single line with light cavalry, usually Lithuanians, on its flanks....Czeladz before 1400 and Lithuanian LH can always dismount as Bw (O)."
I've never been so tongue-tied whilst typing in my life!
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 12:16:07 GMT
Quite logical. Easy to turn left or right if you hold a 15ft pole vertically in a crowd. Hard if it is horizontal!
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 14:22:37 GMT
As you know, not my favourite solution. Take 12 Spartan spears and place them in six columns. The enemy has 9 BW of space to turn the flank even on 600mm boards. ...and the enemy will have a weak centre, which the Spear columns will plough through. (Anyone that has ALL their Spears two deep deserves to lose on the wings! I'm assuming that players have brains, and can see how much they'll be outflanked)It also doesn't seem fair that 8 ranks of hoplites needs to double up to match the combination of Hastati and Principes. Why not? The Roman Hastati fought 8 deep, and the Principes behind them also fought 8 deep. Are you saying that 8 ranks of Hoplites is as good as 16 ranks of Roman Blades? Is a Hoplite twice as good as a Legionary, so the Romans need a deeper formation? (We are talking about Blades being CF 4 with +1 for some sort of foot rear-support, and Spears being CF 3 with +1 for side-support PLUS they get +1 for rear-support... ... so if both are in two deep columns, both have a CF of 5, and have the same frontage)Also, as you well know, at Marathon the Athenians formed up with a thin weak centre (one element deep), but in a deeper formation on their wings (two elements deep). Forget Chaironeia and try re-fighting this engagement with the Greeks in one long line, and see if the outcome matches the historical accounts... Ahh, but if the Romans are 16 deep why do the Pikes have to double up when they were also 16 deep? But maybe the Romans mingled a little? Anyway, Romans didn't fight Spartans. But Hoplites fought Pikes. I'd rather try and get a roughly even numbered battle like Chaironeia to work first before looking at battles with lop-sided numbers like Marathon (or Gaugamela for that matter). Cheers Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 12:37:12 GMT
I was thinking of the actual army lists rather than the one battle. The hoplite lists dominate the pikes because of the number of spear elements. Cheers Jim ...or because DBA 3.0 only gives Spears one single option... ...to form up in one long line, with no benefit from being in column. As you know, not my favourite solution. Take 12 Spartan spears and place them in six columns. The enemy has 9 BW of space to turn the flank even on 600mm boards. It also doesn't seem fair that 8 ranks of hoplites needs to double up to match the combination of Hastati and Principes. But if the Spartans had 2-3 Helot hordes and 2-3 Psiloi (which undoubtedly were there) then you have an interesting mix. AND it looks cool! snowcat is right. I can do what I want at home. I don't play tournaments. But I really enjoy DBA and it can bring people into wargaming because the outlay is so little. But if the classical match ups fall over then the appeal drifts away to other rules or other games. That's why the pike issue trouble me. Hoplite v Hoplite battles work really well! Thracians defending can be hard to dislodge. Early Cathaginian and Syracuse can slug it out. But EAP and Alex Mac struggle. Just my thoughts Cheers Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 11:00:39 GMT
I was thinking the actual army lists rather than the one battle. The hoplite lists dominate the pikes because of the number of spear element.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 10:59:16 GMT
It's interesting how mercenary spearmen were readily available but we don't hear much of mercenary pikemen. The second half of the 4th century saw a re-emergence of heavy armour and the panoply would be more expensive than the pike panoply. These men were professionals yet chose the spear. Given that the Successors were able to raise pikemen quickly from locals (pandatopoi) it can't be because of drill and training. These were definitely not Swiss pikes! It's just an observation but I am a firm believer that self interest is the best motivator and there's no greater self interest than staying alive as a mercenary!
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 10:47:58 GMT
Another problem may be the army lists. 6-8 elements of spears should be enough. I'm sure there were lots more light troops than represented. I like the balance of the Theban list but if you take the deep elements you should lose two other spears, making the phalanx frontage 6 wide. I think that's the sweet spot on a 600mm board. It should also increase the use of terrain on the flanks. Again, I like the visual of lights and cavalry stalking each other around a wood, whilst the heavy infantry slug it out.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 8:33:35 GMT
As usual paddy649, I agree with you (well, mostly). The speed of the pikes demise is a major issue. DBA doesn't provide for the "defensive" pike block. The pinning force as you described. It concentrates on the "offensive" threshing machine. One thought that occurred to me that may work is to make Pk pursuit optional. You can decide if there is a tactical benefit to pursue or to hold the line. Just a thought at the moment that needs testing. Regarding the Successors, if the 3x2 block extends its line with 4Ax, well, let's not get in to 4Ax! But if you could have mercenary spear and they could get side-support from pike, then the line can stand two to two with the Romans for a while. As for walking over hoplites, I'm not convinced. Apart from Charonea, their is Megalopolis. Agis III gave quite a good account with the Spartans, even outnumbered. IMHO the combined arms doctrine developed by Philip and perfected by Alexander was the key. I'd love to see the DBA elements slug it out for a while before a cavalry element finds an exposed flank and charges in. But that's my opinion.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 5:20:07 GMT
As an aside, here's a fascinating article from none other than Victor Davis Hanson for those interested: New Light on Ancient BattlesI like the idea that there's more to learn! Cheers Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Sept 30, 2020 5:16:24 GMT
Sure, the Pike army can form one long line without reserves, but opponents such as the Romans will then complain that they must do the same, leaving no troops left to form their famous multiple line formation. I have been thinking about the Polybian (Republican) Romans in DBA for a little while. I think this may have been one of PB's prototype armes. I'm trying to guess what PB had in mind for the "historical" deployment of this army in DBA 3. He writes the list as "4xHastati/Principes (Bd), 2xHastati/Principes (Bd) or allies (3/4Ax), 2xtriarii (Sp)". I suspect that he intended to see 6 elements in the front line on an open battlefield with the triarii as reserve, the manipular swap of the hastati and principes being too fine detail for DBA. This would fit nicely into the deployment area, which on the smallest board only allows 7 elements across. It also explains the side-support of blades for spears, which allows the triarii to independently fill a whole in the line and keep fighting at +5. The Cv and Ps support and the allies useful as an option for difficult terrain. I don't see a three line deployment of 4-4-2 (any football fans out there?) being of practical use in DBA. So using this as a prototype, I'm looking at Rome's pike armed enemies being able to match a 6 element heavy infantry battle line and have a good fight, similar to blades and spears currently, without being overwhelmed on the flanks by numbers because of depth and without auxillaries being a speed hump! Again, this may only be in my little interest area of Classical and Hellenistic warfare. (But DBA works so well for Dark Age Britain!) Cheers Jim
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