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Post by timurilank on Oct 1, 2020 10:25:30 GMT
Can anyone from their copy of DBMM Book IV give me its description of the czeladz?
I am reading conflicting information as;
DBM notes they were armed with bow or crossbow but changed to lance by 1450.
DBA3 list them as armed only with crossbow after 1400.
Armies of the Middle Ages, vol. 2 by Ian Heath has them armed with either crossbow or lance.
DBMM ?
I am inclined to mix crossbowmen and lancers on the same base, but would like to know how they are described in Late Polish list of DBMM.
The focus is on the Polish – Teutonic War of 1454 – 1466.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 1, 2020 11:54:57 GMT
I do not have a copy of DBMM Book 4 - but your query was a catalyst for ordering it. I should have my copy on Monday.  I have all the DBM books but none of the DBMM because they were so hard to get. I just realized they are on Amazon. I did not get all the Books, just the one on Book 4 which is my favorite period anyway and where most of my future armies will be built from. |
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 13:10:39 GMT
Here you are:
" The rycerz "knights" (alternatively called kopijnicy "lancers") were supported by czeladz "followers", initially armed with crossbow and so called strzelcy "shooters", but by 1400 also with a lance. Czeladz at first drew up in a separate line behind the rycerz, but after 1400 bodies of rycerz and czeladz often alternated in a single line with light cavalry, usually Lithuanians, on its flanks....Czeladz before 1400 and Lithuanian LH can always dismount as Bw (O)."
I've never been so tongue-tied whilst typing in my life!
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 13:11:17 GMT
What figures will you use?
Jim
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Oct 1, 2020 13:56:28 GMT
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Post by timurilank on Oct 1, 2020 14:15:20 GMT
What figures will you use? Jim Jim, Thank you for the information. The collection is focused on the last half of the 15th century which meant armour and weaponry of the heavy cavalry were nearly German in appearance. I am using Legio Heroica exclusively; excellent customer service and delivery times. With minor conversions I should be able to add Polish, Lithuanian and Muscovites to the collection. For the Czeladz, I will use the Swiss mounted crossbow and Burgundian Coustilliers on the same base. |
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Post by timurilank on Oct 1, 2020 14:20:04 GMT
Thanks Tony, These would do for the Battle of Grunwald but are too early for the 13 Years War. |
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 1, 2020 14:39:32 GMT
I've bought from Legio Heroica. Even to Australia, the service was impeccable!
Jim
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Post by vodnik on Oct 2, 2020 7:53:16 GMT
What do you want to do ? New mail<button id="mailtooptionchemailClipboardButton">Copy</button><textarea id="mailtooptionchcopyClipboardTextAreaSelect"></textarea> ![]() ...i did send an email to you hopefully you can read it... |
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Post by vodnik on Oct 2, 2020 7:53:58 GMT
![]() ...i did send an email to you hopefully you can read it... What do you want to do ? New mail<button id="mailtooptionchemailClipboardButton">Copy</button><textarea id="mailtooptionchcopyClipboardTextAreaSelect"></textarea> |
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Post by timurilank on Oct 2, 2020 8:37:55 GMT
![]() ...i did send an email to you hopefully you can read it... What do you want to do ? New mail<button id="mailtooptionchemailClipboardButton">Copy</button><textarea id="mailtooptionchcopyClipboardTextAreaSelect"></textarea> vodnik, File received - it was very helpful. This confirms my decision to base different armed figures for the czeladz (post 1450). Cheers, |
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Post by timurilank on Oct 3, 2020 19:49:03 GMT
There is an interesting 6-page article by Matt Haywood in Slingshot 237 about the Polish Army.
The czeladz (post 1450) were indeed a mix of crossbow armed troopers supported by others armed with lance.
Firing several rounds of bolts, the lance armed czeladz would charge the disordered enemy; a tactic primarily used against the Teutonic order and the Tartars.
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