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Post by felixs on Apr 25, 2017 8:58:59 GMT
Hello everyone,
I encountered something in the rules that caught me unprepared:
Pg. 8 of the rules says: "In each bound, the first move of each single element or column uses 0 PIPs if it is entirely by road, moves until it contacts enemy or friends or moves its full tactical move distance, and does not reverse direction."
a) Does this mean that every element can move straight forward for its full move, regardless of how far it is from the general, without paying even a single PIP? (So basicalle, you can always advance and attack
b) Or does it mean "In each bound, the first move of each single element or column uses 0 PIPs if it is entirely by road, AND moves until it contacts enemy or friends or moves its full tactical move distance, and does not reverse direction."
i.e. this is only true if moving on a road?
If it is in fact a), has it always been that way in DBA? (It seems new to me, we never played it that way...)
Thank you!
Felix
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Post by twrnz on Apr 25, 2017 10:45:26 GMT
Hi Felix, it is "b".
It is only when moving by road and only then in the situations you describe. The stand must also be astride the road.
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Post by felixs on Apr 25, 2017 11:11:22 GMT
Thank you. That is how we played it. Otherwise re-arranging recoils and the like would be much less of a problem.
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Post by medievalthomas on Apr 25, 2017 17:54:52 GMT
This question comes up frequently. This sentence is perhaps one of the most misunderstood. It has too many clauses.
Thanks for the feedback but as mentioned it applies only to the first move on a Road.
TomT
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Post by riothamus on Apr 25, 2017 18:33:07 GMT
This question comes up frequently. This sentence is perhaps one of the most misunderstood. It has too many clauses. Thanks for the feedback but as mentioned it applies only to the first move on a Road. TomT And it has a ',' where an 'and' would be better.
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Post by medievalthomas on Apr 26, 2017 20:21:55 GMT
Here's how I wrote it in D3H2 (Phil style):
The first move each bound of each single element or column uses 0 PIPs if: (a) it is entirely by road, and (b) it is the full tactical move distance possible (or contacts friendly or enemy elements), and (c) it moves only forward (even if an individual element move). Each other tactical move uses up 1 PIP.
Here's how I wrote it in "human" style for A Game of Fire and Ice:
1. Road Movement. Its costs no CPs for the first move of a single Stand or a Column of Stands using Road Movement (see below).
Road Movement A individual Stand or Column can use Road Movement if: (a) the center point of all Stands start on the Road, (b) all Stands are facing down the Road and (c) all Stands move forward (only) along the Road as far as possible. No Stand can enter or touch the front edge of an enemy Zone of Control (see below) or leave the Road. A Column can bend around to conform to the Road.
TomT
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Post by scottrussell on Apr 30, 2017 9:12:49 GMT
I must confess I initially assumed a) to be the correct interpretation until I posted on this forum too check the point. Certainly the English as written would allow this. Obviously it would fundamentally change the game, but it would appear to be justifiable on historical accuracy grounds (Horns blare, "go for it boys, all of you, now"). Just curious, has anybody inadvertently played it this way? What sort of game resulted? A quick one, I would guess! Scott
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Post by j on Jul 19, 2019 18:21:00 GMT
Ok, I have read all the above & I'm STILL confused Let's say I have a column of 4 elements of Spears entirely on the road (is it still allowed if the column is at an angle but the front element is centred on the road?) I can move the column 2 BW for 0 PIPs, then move a 2nd move of 2 BW for 1 PIP, then a subsequent (& final?) move of 2 BW for 1 more PIP so that the column has moved 6BW for the cost of 2 PIPs? & I can do this each & every bound as long as it either moves its full tactical distance (2 BW in this case) or meets friends or enemy (which it CAN contact even in a 2nd or subsequent move) & it does not reverse direction (although it can follow the course of any bends in the road)? Regards, j
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Post by menacussecundus on Jul 19, 2019 18:55:48 GMT
Ok, I have read all the above & I'm STILL confused Let's say I have a column of 4 elements of Spears entirely on the road (is it still allowed if the column is at an angle but the front element is centred on the road?) I can move the column 2 BW for 0 PIPs, then move a 2nd move of 2 BW for 1 PIP, then a subsequent (& final?) move of 2 BW for 1 more PIP so that the column has moved 6BW for the cost of 2 PIPs? & I can do this each & every bound as long as it either moves its full tactical distance (2 BW in this case) or meets friends or enemy (which it CAN contact even in a 2nd or subsequent move) & it does not reverse direction (although it can follow the course of any bends in the road)? Regards, j No. The column makes one move for zero PIPs. It can then make another move, for which it pays a PIP, but it doesn't have to move its full distance. It can't make a third move. (What part of the rules made you think it could?) Edit: Mea culpa. It can make a third move - or even a fourth if the player has enough PIPs.
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Post by vtsaogames on Jul 19, 2019 19:01:25 GMT
I suspect the part that says "Troops moving along a road if making a second or subsequent move."
It does leave a question dangling.
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Post by stevie on Jul 19, 2019 20:16:39 GMT
For what it’s worth, here is what “Second And Subsequent Tactical Moves”, page 9 paragraph 3, says:- "Some elements or groups that have already moved this bound can make a second or subsequent tactical move if there are enough PIPs and only if this does not start or go within 1 BW of enemy (unless while moving along a road) and is entirely by:- (see also figure 5) (c) Troops moving along a road if making a second or subsequent move." And “Player Initiative Points”, page 8 paragraph 6, says:- “In each bound, the first move of each single element or column uses 0 PIPs if it is entirely by road, moves until it contacts enemy or friends or moves its full tactical move distance, and doesn’t reverse direction. Each other tactical move uses 1 PIP.” However, a single element or group must be ‘ on’ the road to be able to use it, and the FAQ says:- “Roads: The center of the moving element's front must stay roughly in the center of the road and its sides roughly parallel astride the road.” ...so I’m not sure that having a column at an angle to the direction of the road counts as being ‘ on’ it. (The sides of the element at the head of the column would not be “ roughly parallel to the sides of the road”, or, if the column was part way through wheeling, then it would not be moving entirely by road, as the elements to its rear would be moving partly across country and not entirely ' on' the road) Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by j on Jul 19, 2019 20:51:15 GMT
So, they can make a subsequent move as per p11 but is menacussecundus right in that only the free 0 PIP 1st move must be a full tactical move (unless it contacts friends or enemy) & any 2nd or subsequent move can be less than a full tactical move? This would make sense I guess as they would be paid for whereas the 1st move is free.
Regards,
j
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Post by stevie on Jul 19, 2019 21:01:08 GMT
Yep, all correct. (And I missed the bit where you originally said that all 4 Spears were already on the road... ...so I assume you mean that head of the column is merely following the curve of the path)
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Post by menacussecundus on Jul 19, 2019 21:34:05 GMT
I believe the "or subsequent" is intended to catch those troop types which can make more than one move per bound, so, for example, a column of LH on a road could move once for zero PIPs, make a second move, which would cost one PIP and then a further move, costing another PIP.
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Post by stevie on Jul 19, 2019 21:49:23 GMT
Yes Menacusssecundus...but surely the same thing applies to ALL troops on a road. Quote: “(c) Troops moving along a road if making a second or subsequent move.” Oh, there's one more thing I forgot to mention. If the first move down a road (you know, the one that costs zero PIPs) encounters an enemy Threat Zone generated by someone you can’t reach, then that zero PIP move will have to be paid for. (After all, you can’t leave the road, you are not contacting friends or enemy, and you are not moving your full tactical distance)
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