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Post by paulhannah on Dec 28, 2018 15:58:59 GMT
" IV/37c Javanese Army: 1 x General in ceremonial chariot with foot guards (CWg)" Macbeth, or others: How did you model your Javanese CWg element? I have (unpainted) Outpost Miniatures' KHM13 Khmer War Chariot, which looks rather like this. That seems to fit the old, LCh classification but (to me, at least) seems rather lacking in terms of the new classification of a "General in ceremonial chariot". The Commentary in DBM Book-III offers this description: "...a king armed with a spear riding in a chariot...with a streamer decorated standard, a black parasol, and small flags on the front of the vehicle..." So, I'm curious to see how others have approached this modelling challenge. |
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Post by macbeth on Jan 1, 2019 22:56:31 GMT
" IV/37c Javanese Army: 1 x General in ceremonial chariot with foot guards (CWg)" Macbeth, or others: How did you model your Javanese CWg element? I have (unpainted) Outpost Miniatures' KHM13 Khmer War Chariot, which looks rather like this. That seems to fit the old, LCh classification but (to me, at least) seems rather lacking in terms of the new classification of a "General in ceremonial chariot". The Commentary in DBM Book-III offers this description: "...a king armed with a spear riding in a chariot...with a streamer decorated standard, a black parasol, and small flags on the front of the vehicle..." So, I'm curious to see how others have approached this modelling challenge. Ah Paul,
Once again you have caught me out in my lacklustre approach to some of the obscure elements (driven by my lack of skill in modelling and my furious zeal to have every element in an army made up as quickly as I can).
For my Javanese commander I took a chariot model from one of the numerous baggage elements that came with my series of cheap Hall of Ancient Warriors DBA Armies - (Brian would always put a chariot or wagon or similar to use as the camp/baggage) and put one of the Parang wielding Falcon Miniatures Malays in the chariot as the boss man. When DBA3 turned the LCh into a CWg I added some guards on foot on the base.
It seems unlikely that the CWg for the Javanese will ever see the light of day since that promptly removes the only hard hitter (El) from the army.
However I plan to run the Konstantinian Byzantine at Cancon using the CP (Mounted General with Varangian Guard) - as they did tolerably well at Landwaster.
Last year Phil Baldoni did very well with the Papal Italian using his "Pope on a Rope" and he very kindly made the conversion for me with the Xyston Antigonos on a Litter so that my own Papal Italian (3 elements complete) can have their CP.
Last year's club campaign game was the rise of Islam and it included
II/69c Sassanid Persians III/16 Khazar III/25a Arab Conquest
All of which could have Command Positions.
Generally in campaign games the player can choose whatever element to be the general. I ruled that the three armies above could substitute the CP for the whatever the alternative general was (ie the Sassanid is 4Kn or Cv or CP) but if a CP was used then it had to be the general.
It went well, the CPs were used occasionally.
Cheers
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Post by paulhannah on Oct 23, 2020 18:00:49 GMT
II/42c Sinhalese Army 175 BC-300 AD: 1 x General on elephant (El) or in palanquin (Lit) II/42d Sinhalese Army 301-1515 AD: 1 x General on elephant (El) or in palanquin (Lit) Anyone here have any clue (or semi-educated guesses) what a Sinhalese Lit (Gen) element might look like? |
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Post by stevie on Oct 23, 2020 18:29:37 GMT
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Post by paulhannah on Oct 24, 2020 2:10:11 GMT
Thanks. I especially like that last one. If I screw on my best scratch-building cap, it "might" be do-able. --What does anyone think about whether Museum's Z-range Indians would work for Sinhalese? |
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battledamage
Beneficiarii
is currently hitting his Papal Italian 3Kn(Gen) with a hammer.
Posts: 82 
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Post by battledamage on Oct 24, 2020 7:49:00 GMT
I like them. They are surprisingly tough, so can be an unexpected tar-pit for an opponent who gets white-line fever and get into combat with them. +6/+4 is not to be sneezed at. They don't recoil and aren't quick killed by Kn. They are also solid Bd, so they give side support to spears and 4Bw. There's a lot to love.... if you don't mind surrendering the initiative a bit.
As MacBeth mentioned, I've had some success with using the Lit(Gen) in my Papal Italians. Probably has more to do with my opponents' relative unfamiliarity with the element (and my 3Kn(Gen) not pursuing into his doom) rather than any skill on my behalf though. But a win is a win  |
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 6, 2022 22:27:30 GMT
Every schoolboy knows that a CP (Lit, CWg, etc.) cannot move into contact with enemy elements. Just curious, though, is it theoretically possible for two CP elements to end up in Close Combat with other, as a result of some outcome move or situation where a column (contacted in flank) must move back, etc.?
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Post by martin on Feb 6, 2022 23:19:41 GMT
Every schoolboy knows that a CP ( Lit, CWg, etc.) cannot move into contact with enemy elements. Just curious, though, is it theoretically possible for two CP elements to end up in Close Combat with other, as a result of some outcome move or situation where a column (contacted in flank) must move back, etc.? Yes….😶 |
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Post by stevie on Feb 7, 2022 12:07:44 GMT
Following on from what Martin said, here is one way it could happen.  Here the Red group has moved forwards into contact, but doesn’t have the room to conform, so the blue player must do the conforming. And IF conforming is not counted as moving (although nowhere in the rules does it say this), then the Blue CP can conform into front-edge contact with the Red CP…even if it exceeds its normal move speed, and even if it passes through Bad Going. |
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Post by medievalthomas on Feb 7, 2022 19:36:33 GMT
OK CP/lit etc. was not a good idea. Sometimes Phil would get stuck on a concept and he could not be moved. Often these were left underdeveloped because the Developers didn't like them so didn't work on them and Phil was never a detail oriented designer.
A stattionary General should just sit in the Camp and avoid all these extra rules.
Maybe to make up for being stationary a Camp General would count +2 in Combat (extra guards and defenses). Would still give an opportunity for extra modeling cool thrones etc. in Camp but save us a bunch of unworkable rules.
TomT
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Post by stevie on Feb 7, 2022 20:33:36 GMT
If the general is in the camp Tom, I’d give him unlimited command range. After all, everyone knows where he is, so couriers and messengers know where to find him! |
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Gen. CP
Feb 7, 2022 20:43:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by paulhannah on Feb 7, 2022 20:43:48 GMT
Tom's compromise solution is one I could have lived with, had PB gone along. It really does make sense.
But since those wacky CP's are out on the battlefield, it's also fun to think that two of them could -someday- bump into each other. Thanks, Stevie.
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Post by lkmjbc on Feb 8, 2022 4:04:36 GMT
I've definitely got Brian Boru!
Though he only shows during Big Battle games.
Joe Collins
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Post by ronisan on Feb 8, 2022 11:11:15 GMT
Following on from what Martin said, here is one way it could happen. Here the Red group has moved forwards into contact, but doesn’t have the room to conform, so the blue player must do the conforming. And IF conforming is not counted as moving (although nowhere in the rules does it say this), then the Blue CP can conform into front-edge contact with the Red CP…even if it exceeds its normal move speed, and even if it passes through Bad Going. Hello, well my interpretation of „ CP, Lit, etc. cannot move into any contact with enemy, …“ is different.  Because in Stevie‘s example above, CP is part of a group (!) -> So moving the group into contact is also moving the CP into contact! It‘s not moving a single left element and a single right element with a single (CP-) element between them into contact by using a group move! For me, it‘s not a legal move/contact. So for me, if a group contains one or more elements which cannot move into contact with enemy, then the whole group cannot move into contact with enemy. Cheers, Ronald |
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Post by stevie on Feb 8, 2022 12:02:19 GMT
I do agree with you Ronald (there, I bet that surprised you!  )… …but I do so for slightly different reasons. Nowhere, absolutely NOWHERE, does it say in the rules that conforming is not really moving. That notion is nothing more than a player invented miss-conception. Allowing conforming to ‘not really be moving’ causes loads of weird stupid side-effects:- * It lets elements and groups exceed their normal travel distances (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… * It lets WWg & Art to pass through and even end in Bad Going (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… * It lets groups to pass through and end as a group in Bad Going (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… * It lets ‘Static’ troops (CP/Lit/CWg/WWg/Art) to end in close combat (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… * It lets groups leave a Threat Zone without moving straight back (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… * It even lets groups cross deep rivers as a group (as conforming is not ‘moving’)… Page 9 Contacting The Enemy does say “Contactors conform using their tactical move…”, but it doesn’t say “Those that must conform can ignore ALL normal movement rules”. |
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