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Post by stevie on Apr 28, 2017 20:50:30 GMT
Here are the last, yes LAST, of the Book III errors...although most of them are for Book IV:-III/73a Communal Italian Army (1029 AD – 1150 AD) remove IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD) (Although III/73a lists IV/5b as an enemy, IV/5b doesn’t mention III/73a, and the dates don’t match) IV/7 Early Crusader Army (1096 AD – 1128 AD) add III/74a Rum Army (1063 AD – 1276 AD) (Army III/74a lists IV/7 as an enemy, but IV/7 doesn’t mention III/74a) IV/55b Ottoman Army (1362 AD – 1520 AD) add III/71c Georgian Army (1122 AD – 1683 AD) (Army III/71c lists IV/55b as an enemy, but IV/55b doesn’t mention III/71c) IV/68e Spanish Army (1495 AD – 1503 AD) add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD) IV/68f Spanish Army (1504 AD – 1515 AD) add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD) (Army III/75 lists both IV/68e and IV/68f as enemies, but neither of these mentions III/75) Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4421------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, every single Book III army, enemy, ally and date has been thoroughly analyzed.
Book IV, obviously, will be next...
...and I’ll need more help than usual with this, as it’s not a period I know very well.
About the only books I have is “The Art of War in the Middle Ages” by Sir Charles Oman, a bunch of historical atlases, and a handful of British history books. I don’t even have the DBMM Book IV Army Lists, as I never got around to buying them.
Still, I’m not going to let that stop me..... 
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Post by timurilank on Apr 28, 2017 21:30:37 GMT
I will look at those book III items tomorrow with my coffee and croissant.
There are plenty of books online so I do not expect your pace will slip much.  This has been a useful exercise as I have discovered research material for my new Book III project.
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Post by timurilank on Apr 29, 2017 6:28:48 GMT
Here are the last, yes LAST, of the Book III errors...although most of them are for Book IV:-
III/73a Communal Italian Army (1029 AD – 1150 AD) remove IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD)
(Although III/73a lists IV/5b as an enemy, IV/5b doesn’t mention III/73a, and the dates don’t match)
The dates for the Communal Italian sub-lists changed by 50 years retaining some enemies that should not be listed.
Action:
Remove IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD) from III/73a Communal Italian Army (1029 AD – 1150 AD).
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Post by timurilank on Apr 29, 2017 6:29:43 GMT
IV/7 Early Crusader Army (1096 AD – 1128 AD) add III/74a Rum Army (1063 AD – 1276 AD)
(Army III/74a lists IV/7 as an enemy, but IV/7 doesn’t mention III/74a)
The Rum were III/73a in the old version and changing the army list number to 74a most likely missed the Crusaders.
Action:
Add III/74a Rum Army (1063 AD – 1276 AD) to IV/7 Early Crusader Army (1096 AD – 1128 AD).
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Post by timurilank on Apr 29, 2017 6:30:29 GMT
IV/55b Ottoman Army (1362 AD – 1520 AD) add III/71c Georgian Army (1122 AD – 1683 AD)
(Army III/71c lists IV/55b as an enemy, but IV/55b doesn’t mention III/71c)
III/71 were the Anglo-Danish in the older version and most likely missed for this reason.
Action:
Add III/71c Georgian Army (1122 AD – 1683 AD) to IV/55b Ottoman Army (1362 AD – 1520 AD).
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Post by timurilank on Apr 29, 2017 6:31:43 GMT
IV/68e Spanish Army (1495 AD – 1503 AD) add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD)
IV/68f Spanish Army (1504 AD – 1515 AD) add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD)
(Army III/75 lists both IV/68e and IV/68f as enemies, but neither of these mentions III/75)
1492 marks the last step of the Reconquista with the fall of Granada ending Muslim rule; Those Muslims and Jews that wished to remain had to convert to Christianity. After this period, there are minor revolts by the Muslim inhabitants by nothing that would reach an army size strength.
During the late 15th century, both the Portuguese and Spanish conducted operations against the various sultanates across the Straits of Gibraltar and the IV/68b Portuguese do record the Islamic Berber as an enemy. Regarding the two Spanish sub-lists, they did continue their war by taking the city of Oran in 1509 (Zayyanid held territory).
Action:
Add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD) to IV/68e Spanish Army (1495 AD – 1503 AD).
Add III/75 Islamic Berber Army (1039 AD – 1529 AD) to IV/68f Spanish Army (1495 AD – 1503 AD).
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Post by stevie on Apr 30, 2017 14:46:46 GMT
I am finding Book IV errors…unfortunately they are mostly those that have already been discovered.
This is good news for the Army Lists, as it means there are few errors to find.
But it’s not much fun for me, wading through list after list and not finding anything.
Anyway, here are some new Book IV errors that have not been found before:-
IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD) remove IV/13a Medieval German Army (1106 AD – 1150 AD) (Army IV/5b lists IV/13a as an enemy, but IV/13a doesn’t mention IV/5b, and the dates don’t match) IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) remove III/73a Communal Italians (1029 AD – 1150 AD) (Army IV/13b lists III/73a as an enemy, but III/73a doesn’t mention IV/13b, and the dates don’t match) IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) remove IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) (Although listed as mutual enemies, these the dates don’t match) IV/13d Medieval Germans (1494 AD – 1518 AD) remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) (Army IV/13d lists IV/82a as an enemy, but IV/82a doesn’t mention IV/13d, and the dates don’t match) Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4421
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Post by timurilank on Apr 30, 2017 15:10:23 GMT
I am finding Book IV errors…unfortunately they are mostly those that have already been discovered.
This is good news for the Army Lists, as it means there are few errors to find.
But it’s not much fun for me, wading through list after list and not finding anything.
I am at a loss for words. |
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Post by timurilank on May 1, 2017 6:34:12 GMT
Anyway, here are some new Book IV errors that have not been found before:-
IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD) remove IV/13a Medieval German Army (1106 AD – 1150 AD)
(Army IV/5b lists IV/13a as an enemy, but IV/13a doesn’t mention IV/5b, and the dates don’t match)
IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) remove III/73a Communal Italians (1029 AD – 1150 AD)
(Army IV/13b lists III/73a as an enemy, but III/73a doesn’t mention IV/13b, and the dates don’t match)
IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD)
IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) remove IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD)
(Although listed as mutual enemies, these the dates don’t match)
IV/13d Medieval Germans (1494 AD – 1518 AD) remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD)
(Army IV/13d lists IV/82a as an enemy, but IV/82a doesn’t mention IV/13d, and the dates don’t match)
In the new version all four Medieval German sub-lists had their dates revised leaving a number of enemies hanging in the wrong list.
Action:
Remove IV/13a Medieval German Army (1106 AD – 1150 AD) from IV/5b Sicilian Army (1194 AD – 1266 AD).
Remove III/73a Communal Italians (1029 AD – 1150 AD) from IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD).
Remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) from IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD).
Remove IV/13b Medieval Germans (1151 AD – 1439 AD) from IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD).
Remove IV/82a French Ordonnance (1445 AD – 1480 AD) from IV/13d Medieval Germans (1494 AD – 1518 AD).
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Post by stevie on May 1, 2017 11:24:26 GMT
I have searched from the IV/25 Later Bulgar Army to the IV/45 Mamluk Egyptian Army, and I’ve found…
…nothing. No errors at all. Not a sausage. Zilch.
But to keep Timurilank on his toes , here are some green items from Book III that need re-checking:-III/19c North Welsh Army (1150 AD – 1420 AD) change Ally from IV/64b to IV/64c (in 1405 only)?(Originally suggested by Haardrada, so that these French allies can have ‘siege equipment’.) III/20a Sui Army (581 AD - 611 AD) add II/75 Paekche or Kaya Korean Army (300 AD – 663 AD)?
III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD) add I/49d Early Vietnamese Army (248 AD – 938 AD)?
III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD) add II/77a Shilla Korean Army (300 AD – 670 AD)?(The III/20 Sui Armies fails to mention these three enemies.) There are some more green items under the Book II corrections on page 5, but I’m still reading Livy’s Early History of Rome looking for information about these.
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Post by timurilank on May 2, 2017 6:54:22 GMT
III/19c North Welsh Army (1150 AD – 1420 AD) change Ally from IV/64b to IV/64c (in 1405 only)?
(Originally suggested by Haardrada, so that these French allies can have ‘siege equipment’.)
From the old to new version, the end and start dates for IV/64 b & IV/64c Medieval French changed by nineteen years possibly affecting other enemies/allies.
Action:
Change Ally from IV/64b to IV/64c Medieval French (1401 – 1445 AD) for III/19c North Welsh Army (1150 AD – 1420 AD). The date reference can be expressed as simply (1405).
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Post by timurilank on May 2, 2017 6:55:51 GMT
III/20a Sui Army (581 AD - 611 AD) add II/75 Paekche or Kaya Korean Army (300 AD – 663 AD)?
III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD) add I/49d Early Vietnamese Army (248 AD – 938 AD)?
III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD) add II/77a Shilla Korean Army (300 AD – 670 AD)?
(The III/20 Sui Armies fails to mention these three enemies.)
Odd. All the above were correctly listed in the previous version. The III/20a & b are list as enemies for the Paekche and Shilla Korean and Early Vietnamese but not the reverse.
Action:
Add II/75 Paekche or Kaya Korean Army (300 AD – 663 AD) to III/20a Sui Army (581 AD - 611 AD).
Add I/49d Early Vietnamese Army (248 AD – 938 AD) to III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD).
Add II/77a Shilla Korean Army (300 AD – 670 AD) to III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD).
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2017 22:54:32 GMT
AH! Some new Book IV errors (I knew there would be some more to be squeezed out of the Purple Book)IV/46 Ilkhanid Army (1251 AD – 1355 AD) change Ally from IV/6 to IV/6b Abbasid Iraq (1092 AD - 1258 AD) (Having IV/6 as an ally is too vague…I think it should be IV/6b, which geographically seems about right) IV/54d Other Scandinavians (1280 AD – 1523 AD) remove IV/27 Estonian Army (1200 AD - 1227 AD) (Army IV/54d lists IV/27 as an enemy, but IV/27 doesn’t mention IV/54d, and the dates don’t match) IV/68e Spanish Army (1495 AD – 1503 AD) remove IV/74 Free Company & Armagnacs (1357 AD - 1444 AD) IV/68f Spanish Army (1504 AD – 1515 AD) remove IV/74 Free Company & Armagnacs (1357 AD - 1444 AD) (Both these Spanish armies list IV/74 as an enemy, but IV/74 doesn’t mention either, and the dates are wrong) IV/72 Amazonian Army (1350 AD – 1662 AD) add IV/72 Amazonian Army (1350 AD – 1662 AD) (If any army should have itself as a mutual internal enemy, it’s this one!) IV/78 Yi Dynasty Korean (1392 AD - 1598 AD) add IV/59a Post-Mongol Samurai (1300 AD – 1464 AD) (Army IV/59a lists IV/78 as an enemy, but IV/78 doesn’t mention IV/59a, only IV/59b) IV/81 Inca Imperial Army (1438 AD - 1534 AD) add IV/70 Chanca or Canari Army (1350 AD – 1470 AD) (Army IV/70 lists IV/81 as an enemy, but IV/81 doesn’t mention IV/70) I’ll update page 5 tomorrow, because as good looking as I am, I still need my beauty sleep…… 
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Post by timurilank on May 3, 2017 6:30:36 GMT
AH! Some new Book IV errors (I knew there would be some more to be squeezed out of the Purple Book)
IV/46 Ilkhanid Army (1251 AD – 1355 AD) change Ally from IV/6 to IV/6b Abbasid Iraq (1092 AD - 1258 AD)
(Having IV/6 as an ally is too vague…I think it should be IV/6b, which geographically seems about right)
The IV/6 Syrian army was expanded to three sub-lists in which all three list the Ilkhanid as enemy.
The IV/6b Abbasid Iraq were destroyed in 1258 with the sacking of Bagdad eliminating them as a possible candidate.
The IV/6c Arab Dynasty list ends at 1172 AD eliminating them as well.
This leaves IV/6a giving us the Ilkhanid vassal states in Anatolia and Armenia.
Action:
Change IV/6 to IV/6a Turkish ruled states (1092 – 1286 AD) for IV/46 Ilkhanid Army (1251 AD – 1355 AD).
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Post by timurilank on May 3, 2017 6:31:22 GMT
IV/54d Other Scandinavians (1280 AD – 1523 AD) remove IV/27 Estonian Army (1200 AD - 1227 AD)
(Army IV/54d lists IV/27 as an enemy, but IV/27 doesn’t mention IV/54d, and the dates don’t match)
Correct as the Estonian were conquered by the Teuton and Danes by this time.
Action:
Remove IV/27 Estonian Army (1200 AD - 1227 AD) from IV/54d Other Scandinavians (1280 AD – 1523 AD).
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