Historical Opponents?

Here are some rather obscure errors concerning Book III armies (Group #3 on page 5 has been updated):-

III/20b Sui Army (612 AD - 623 AD) add II/77a Shilla Korean Army (300 AD – 670 AD)
(Army II/77a lists III/20a & III/20b as enemies, but III/20d does not mention II/77a)

By splitting the Sui Army in two sub-lists, the Tang sub-list is moved from III/20b to III/20c.
The omission should be made.

Action:
Add II/77a Shilla Korean Army (300 AD – 670 AD) to III/20a Sui Army (581 AD - 611 AD).

Here are some rather obscure errors concerning Book III armies (Group #3 on page 5 has been updated):-

III/54b Qaramita Armies (897 AD – 1079 AD) add II/58 Alan Army (50 AD – 1500 AD)
(Army II/58 lists III/54a & III/54b as enemies, but III/54b does not mention II/58)

This is strange as the centre for the Qaramitan rebellion is located around the Persian Gulf. From there, they spread terror throughout the Arabian Peninsula and attacked as far north as Baghdad. During the period, the most southern neighbors of the Alani would be the Bagratid Armenian 885 – 1045 AD and III/71a Georgia 1008 – 1089 AD, both of which list III/54a as an enemy but not III/54b.

Could it not be possible that II/58 Alan lists incorrectly the III/54b?

Action:
Anyone one have information about these two?

Here are some rather obscure errors concerning Book III armies (Group #3 on page 5 has been updated):-

III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/8 Central-Asian City States (500 AD – 1000 AD)
(Army III/8 lists II/25c as an enemy, but III/25c makes no mention of III/8)
Action:
See comment below.

III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/12 Christian Nubian Army (550 AD – 1500 AD)
(Army III/12 lists II/25c as an enemy, but III/25c makes no mention of III/12)
Action:
See comment below.

III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/27 Rshituni Armenian Army (639 AD – 717 AD)
(Army III/27 lists II/25c as an enemy, but III/25c makes no mention of III/27)
Action:
See comment below.

III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add II/55b Blemmye or Nobades (201 AD - 831 AD)
(Army II/55b lists III/25c as an enemy, but III/25c does not mention II/55b)
Action:
See comment below

Comment on the Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)

I suspect the list of enemies of the Umayyad Arab were copied and added to the newly created III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) list as a shortcut to be edited later.

This seems not to have happened for whatever reason.

I found the Khawarij generally placed on the frontier of the caliphate (Heath) and Nicole places them in the east.

DBM Book III mentions the Khawarij as ‘highly motivated volunteers, placed in advance camps wearing red shirts and anxious to get rich by raiding.

Discontented by the lack of zeal by the central authority from 744 they were in permanent revolt’.

Unless anyone has additional information, I view their employment and location would most likely bring them into contact with the Central Asian City States and not the Christian Nubian, Blemmye, the Rshituni Armenian and Nobades and Later Moorish.

III/31 Umayyad Army (661 AD – 750 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)
(Army III/25c lists III/31 as an enemy, but III/31 makes no mention of III/25c)

Correct.
Action:
Add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) to III/31 Umayyad Army list of enemies.

Mar 11, 2017 11:14:23 GMT timurilank said:

3) However, the following armies do not have themselves listed as enemies (but SHOULD have):-

II/67b Other Greuthingi, Early Ostrogothic, Herul, Sciri & Taifali 200 – 493 AD
The 3rd and 4th century marked the westward migration from the lands north of the Black Sea to the Carpathians. This brought them into contact with the Tervingi and Carpi. The geographical location meant land for grazing was reduced in comparison to the steppe lands left behind; this became a source of friction. If they found themselves on opposite sides of the battlefield it was as mercenaries or allies of the Visigoths and Vandals; later as foederati of Rome.

Action:
This is not a substantial argument to include themselves as enemies of own list, but if anyone has further information please share.

Weren't the Greuthingi, Ostrogoths, Heruls, Sciri and Taifali all separate independent steppe tribes, who just happen to be lumped together as army list II/67b?

Mar 15, 2017 15:31:10 GMT stevie said:

Mar 15, 2017 6:13:32 GMT Dangun said:

Consistency is good.

But accuracy is even better, and I doubt that the Sui ever fought either Paekche or Silla.
The main issue is the lack of a common border
Although I can see a case for making Paekche a Sui ally.

Furthermore, what is the Sui army list doing extending to 623AD?

The dynasty had ended in 618AD, the last Sui Emperor died in 619AD, and the independent Sui General who deposed the last Sui emperor was dead in 621AD.

Excellent input Dangun.
I’m afraid my knowledge of Chinese history is next to zero, so I’ll let you and Timurilank sort this one out.

And I do apologize to everyone for being so quiet over the past week...
...it turns out that British Telecom says there is nothing wrong with my hub/router, but that I have some sort of fault on the line (although the land-line phone works ok), and it will take a further 5 working days (!) to restore my broadband service (I’m currently sending this from work).

Sorry, but I do not have the resources to complete this one.

I would place it in the group needing extra research.

I too found the discrepancy in ending date which reminded me of Parthia's demise (225 or 229 AD) having two.