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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 26, 2023 20:35:02 GMT
Great news! Out of interest, are you familiar with ADLG with respect to its layout and presentation? Yes very familiar have both editions and have played many games. TomT
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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 26, 2023 20:37:11 GMT
I def want a GW like 200 pages of fluff having no bearing on the game whatsoever. Oh and adverts, dont forget some adverts. Very mindful we are not creating a coffee table book. Diagrams have full art but illustrate game points. Occasional picture to fill out page space. I don't like flipping through rulebooks padded with pictures trying to find a rule. TomT
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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 26, 2023 20:42:44 GMT
There might be a few more if the presentation was improved. Problem with that? We intend to attract more. We are way under represented compared to say Age of Silly. Our player base is ageing and shrinking. Presentation plays a role but it is not just pictures - well designed rules presented with clear declarative sentences and with explanatory diagrams are much more important. TomT
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Post by medievalthomas on Oct 26, 2023 20:44:01 GMT
Would add: Print the rules in readable type - at least 12-point. No 79-word sentences. Short paragraphs. Clear grammar (maybe teach ye English about sentence diagramming ?) OK, my 3 cents worth (inflation). Happy Halloween, and see you at Fall In ! That part we are already doing. TomT
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Post by snowcat on Oct 26, 2023 23:53:54 GMT
There might be a few more if the presentation was improved. Problem with that? We intend to attract more. We are way under represented compared to say Age of Silly. Our player base is ageing and shrinking. Presentation plays a role but it is not just pictures - well designed rules presented with clear declarative sentences and with explanatory diagrams are much more important. TomT I don't disagree with that; however, I do think that for newcomers a page or two of very eye-catching 'inspiration' army/battle photos goes a long way to motivating the reader to read the rules (and follow the diagrams) to play the game. The eyecandy provides the impetus and even some of the ongoing fuel. So, for example, a battle photo at the start of the book, and a centre spread of some battles or armies would go a long way to achieving this.
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Post by kaiphranos on Oct 27, 2023 0:30:46 GMT
Not exactly a wargaming neophyte, but I will say that what lured me into DBA 3.0 a few years back was the army lists, which remain the most inspirational (or perhaps aspirational) parts of the rulebook for me.
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Post by snowcat on Oct 27, 2023 0:46:22 GMT
I was practically raised on the earlier editions of those army lists, back in 5th & 6th edition of the WRG Rules. No doubt there are some folks here who go back further than that.
I remember going back and forth from the army lists to my Funcken books, Peter Connolly books and 'Warfare in the Classical World' by John Warry for the art inspiration and further reading. Ospreys didn't even exist.
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Post by skb777 on Oct 27, 2023 9:05:14 GMT
Not exactly a wargaming neophyte, but I will say that what lured me into DBA 3.0 a few years back was the army lists, which remain the most inspirational (or perhaps aspirational) parts of the rulebook for me. I’d imagine pretty much any biblical - ancient - medieval warfare rules in modern times have ‘borrowed’ those army list and adapted them to their own use. I have been known to buy rules just for the picture 🙈 but a well presented pdf with hyperlinks would also be handy. I lie owning the physical copy, but I’m more likely to read it on my phone/tablet/laptop.
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Post by felixs on Oct 27, 2023 17:29:36 GMT
It is a forthcoming fantasy rules set from WRG. It is based on DBA, but will feature larger sized battles with a point purchase system for armies... You standard battle will be about 36 elements per side. Smaller and larger games are of course possible.
Oh cool, that is much more than I dared to hope to ever happen
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Post by paddy649 on Oct 29, 2023 7:36:48 GMT
With all this discussion about presentation of rule sets I thought this was interesting: youtu.be/b3F7EOgtDbM?si=vVJdMSnBiOfx4RzNI have no connection at all with this team but coming from the US I thought that it gives a broad perspective. Also with a Warhammer background I was expecting the authors to be a bit biased. However, I was pleasantly surprised that: DBA - the oldest set of rules being reviewed was viewed very positively. There were no negative comments about the writing of DBA. Substance was preferred to style - it wasn’t all about presentation! The more “boutique” games were called out for what they are. ADLG was trashed as being only good for competitions. However, I note that Triumph was lumped in with the DBA rulesets. What does anyone else make of this? Anyone tried the other two recommended rulesets: Age of Hannibal and To the Strongest?
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Post by timurilank on Oct 29, 2023 8:52:10 GMT
With all this discussion about presentation of rule sets I thought this was interesting: youtu.be/b3F7EOgtDbM?si=vVJdMSnBiOfx4RzNI have no connection at all with this team but coming from the US I thought that it gives a broad perspective. Also with a Warhammer background I was expecting the authors to be a bit biased. However, I was pleasantly surprised that: DBA - the oldest set of rules being reviewed was viewed very positively. There were no negative comments about the writing of DBA. Substance was preferred to style - it wasn’t all about presentation! The more “boutique” games were called out for what they are. ADLG was trashed as being only good for competitions. However, I note that Triumph was lumped in with the DBA rulesets. What does anyone else make of this? Anyone tried the other two recommended rulesets: Age of Hannibal and To the Strongest? Interesting review of a few ancient rule sets. More were mentioned below in the comments section. DBA did get a positive mention. On the downside, it lacks Heroics? Really? I thought that was the task of the player. Noted the 22-year-old copy of DBA.
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 29, 2023 10:51:35 GMT
With all this discussion about presentation of rule sets I thought this was interesting: youtu.be/b3F7EOgtDbM?si=vVJdMSnBiOfx4RzNI have no connection at all with this team but coming from the US I thought that it gives a broad perspective. Also with a Warhammer background I was expecting the authors to be a bit biased. However, I was pleasantly surprised that: DBA - the oldest set of rules being reviewed was viewed very positively. There were no negative comments about the writing of DBA. Substance was preferred to style - it wasn’t all about presentation! The more “boutique” games were called out for what they are. ADLG was trashed as being only good for competitions. However, I note that Triumph was lumped in with the DBA rulesets. What does anyone else make of this? Anyone tried the other two recommended rulesets: Age of Hannibal and To the Strongest? Age of Hannibal is from Greg Wagman of Little Wars TV. You can see them in use in their Pyrrhic Wars campaign linkThey are based on Chipco's Fantasy Rules!, which borrowed and adapted some DBx ideas. Cheers Jim
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Post by snowcat on Oct 29, 2023 12:01:43 GMT
With all this discussion about presentation of rule sets I thought this was interesting: youtu.be/b3F7EOgtDbM?si=vVJdMSnBiOfx4RzNI have no connection at all with this team but coming from the US I thought that it gives a broad perspective. Also with a Warhammer background I was expecting the authors to be a bit biased. However, I was pleasantly surprised that: DBA - the oldest set of rules being reviewed was viewed very positively. There were no negative comments about the writing of DBA. Substance was preferred to style - it wasn’t all about presentation! The more “boutique” games were called out for what they are. ADLG was trashed as being only good for competitions. However, I note that Triumph was lumped in with the DBA rulesets. What does anyone else make of this? Anyone tried the other two recommended rulesets: Age of Hannibal and To the Strongest? The only comment about ADLG that I agreed with was getting used to the rules. They can be a bit inelegant and intrusive in places. The other comments were pretty shallow.
To the Strongest is a very popular system. It certainly has lots of troop type flavour. I wrote a couple of the army lists for Simon years ago.
No-one is saying presentation is the most important thing or that style is more important than substance. I'm simply saying that presentation is an important component of a product, and in addition to good writing and instructive diagrams in useful places, some professional photos of well painted miniatures, terrain and camps wouldn't go astray.
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Post by jdesmond on Oct 30, 2023 2:08:56 GMT
Salutations !
Thinking about paddy649's post: I sometime think that Games Workshop's _real_ market are the parents, grandparents, maiden aunts of 'young-adolescent males', whom GW has convinced that their tweener boys now have a safe place to hang out with other boys (and spend their allowances and birthday gifts) ...
In other words, maybe GW's real competition is the Boy Scouts ...
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Post by jdesmond on Oct 30, 2023 2:11:53 GMT
Would add: Print the rules in readable type - at least 12-point. No 79-word sentences. Short paragraphs. Clear grammar (maybe teach ye English about sentence diagramming ?) OK, my 3 cents worth (inflation). Happy Halloween, and see you at Fall In ! That part we are already doing. TomT Great ! Trust you to pull this off. Saving my pennies for its release.
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