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Post by phippsy on Oct 17, 2016 8:42:07 GMT
Maybe there are none......
I ran two games at the weekend both Gallic v Camillian Roman. Gauls invading.
The Gauls had 2 x Cav, 8 x 4Wb, 1 LCh and 1 Ps. Terrain arable with good going plough and a few gentle hills.
Romans had a single line of heavy foot with Cav, Ps and aux on flanks
First set up the Gaul Wb took centre table and went straight at the Roman centre in double rows with a 4 element front. Both sets of Cav had a fight over a hill on the Gaul left, and the Ps and LCh balanced out with the Roman and Italian 3 Aux on the right flank. One Roman Ps blocked a double rank Wb. So only a 3 wide Wb front hit the Roman line. They did not punch through straight away, which then allowed the heavy foot to lap around and the end of the Gauls was very quick. No Gaul quick kills.
I thought this through and second time deployed with two Gaul Warband Groups both 2x2 facing the end Roman heavy foot elements at each end. The lone Gaul Ps was on the in side flank on one Group. I split the Gaul cavalry and one of the Roman Ps was caught in the open and destroyed. When the Warband hit the Roman line. There was no Roman outside overlapping owing to the Gaul Cav and LCh protecting, the Roman heavy foot could not lap outside as in front contact only, and was blocked on inside overlaps by the lone Ps element. The outcome was quick Roman heavy foot kills on the outside, the Warband flooded through and then ate the Romans up from the outside in.
The second tactic seemed to work better - are there other formations or splits that seem to be more effective with Warband? Generally is it better to have extended the Gaul line to say 8 element with single depth to cut down overlaps, maintain the quick kill opportunity but with less probability per die roll.....any tips or advice?
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Post by vodnik on Oct 17, 2016 9:25:43 GMT
...warband are quite different also in the specific version you use. Gallic warband is faster then Germans or the elements are different. Gallic are 3Wb and 2cm deep. Germans are 4Wb and 1.5cm deep. There are also Aztec but where are 5Wb on a cavalry base. For DBA terms it is not important if the warband is figthing in a shield wall formation or not...
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Post by mellis1644 on Oct 17, 2016 14:25:29 GMT
The only success I have had with Warband vs heavy foot is as you did - ensure that you divide the battle into smaller area's. Then win in one of more of the area's with QK's, overlaps etc- some good luck at the right time is still required for this to work though. Speed/movement and terrain are the war bands friend in this type of matchup. The heavy foot want a straight one on one battle line as although there are quick kills the odds are in their favor over time with overlaps etc.
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Post by martin on Oct 17, 2016 14:46:43 GMT
...warband are quite different also in the specific version you use. Gallic warband is faster then Germans or the elements are different. Gallic are 3Wb and 2cm deep. Germans are 4Wb and 1.5cm deep. There are also Aztec but where are 5Wb on a cavalry base. There are significant changes from v2.2 to this in v3- Gallic can be 4Wb, 4Wb can be on 20mm deep bases, the old 5Wb is now 5Hd/fast horde. M
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Post by phippsy on Oct 17, 2016 16:20:15 GMT
Martin indeed. My original observation related to the DBA 3.0. But the tactics of Warband ibwas interested in understanding stand in the original post by me. Your comments were very useful. Thanks Phippsy...
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Post by timurilank on Oct 17, 2016 20:12:41 GMT
I posted three battles between Early Germans and Middle Imperial Rome to my blog last week. dbagora.blogspot.nl/2016/10/severan-army-vs-early-german.html Each battle the Germans changed their deployment by increasing their frontage which brought them success.
This was done by interspersing either single 4Wb or cavalry between warband columns.
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Post by Commiades on Oct 17, 2016 21:53:26 GMT
I posted three battles between Early Germans and Middle Imperial Rome to my blog last week. dbagora.blogspot.nl/2016/10/severan-army-vs-early-german.html Each battle the Germans changed their deployment by increasing their frontage which brought them success.
This was done by interspersing either single 4Wb or cavalry between warband columns.
Those are interesting reports; I'm revisting WB tactics after rebasing my Gauls. My opponents are using a reserve line to deal with Kn or Wb breaking through. Have you tried that?
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Post by timurilank on Oct 18, 2016 6:56:29 GMT
I do find a reserve (cavalry elements are best) useful when fighting warband armies. However, battles can be over before an element from the reserve group is ever committed.
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Post by Cromwell on Oct 18, 2016 8:18:12 GMT
I recently fought Ancient British V Early imperial Roman. I defeated the Romans by also using my P on the flanks, Light Horse on flanks and chariots to sweep round the Roman flank. Seemed a sound tactic.
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Post by Commiades on Oct 18, 2016 20:14:19 GMT
I do find a reserve (cavalry elements are best) useful when fighting warband armies. However, battles can be over before an element from the reserve group is ever committed. Nasty! I'm thinking more of battles with pike and an element of knights or warband that benefit from the double-overlap the pike create, but then are in turn double-overlapped. I guess a lot of warband may create a ripple of death if things go their way.
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Post by twrnz on Oct 18, 2016 23:51:11 GMT
Nasty! I'm thinking more of battles with pike and an element of knights or warband that benefit from the double-overlap the pike create, but then are in turn double-overlapped. I guess a lot of warband may create a ripple of death if things go their way. I've fought a few games against Pk & Wb combinations, mostly with BBDBA recently. The combination can be strong, but can be countered with Ps to some degree. I rather like the mounted reserve, but I never have spare mounted!
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Post by Haardrada on Oct 19, 2016 5:09:42 GMT
With the need for Wb to double up against heavy foot to beat the likes of Sp,Bd and double ranked Pk it always narrows their frontage.,this allows Roman armies from EIR onwards to stiffle the Warbands onslaught by deploying their Aux forward of the Legionaries to break up or slow the Wb so the Roman player can flank them or win elsewhere.Ps can be used in the same way as with most mounted,so a Wb army has to rely on something more that the 1 big charge.The widening of the line by interspercing single Wb or other elements can help get the overlaps,but flanking an enemy line is usually more successful.
If the Wb is also the defender consider the placement of bad terrain to slow or channel the heavy infantry into a killing ground where they can be flanked.
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Post by twrnz on Oct 19, 2016 5:54:59 GMT
Maybe there are none...... I ran two games at the weekend both Gallic v Camillian Roman. Gauls invading......any tips or advice? When fighting Camillian Romans you are of course required to use the earlier army with the higher aggression, assuming you are playing in period. When fighting Polybian Romans my son prefers the late list with a lower aggression. This allows a greater ability for the Gallic player to select the battlefield. Both the earlier and later Gauls can have a variable number of mounted, this can be most useful and provides some interest and challenges for the Romans. Consider using a Wb general on occasion. This creates a strong breakthrough unit, 5 vs 5 with a quick kill.
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Post by Commiades on Oct 19, 2016 7:31:22 GMT
Maybe there are none...... I ran two games at the weekend both Gallic v Camillian Roman. Gauls invading......any tips or advice? When fighting Camillian Romans you are of course required to use the earlier army with the higher aggression, assuming you are playing in period. When fighting Polybian Romans my son prefers the late list with a lower aggression. This allows a greater ability for the Gallic player to select the battlefield. The variable aggression for Polybian Romans was something in DBA 2.2. In 3.0, they are always aggression 3, which is more realistic.
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Post by twrnz on Oct 19, 2016 7:39:43 GMT
Mark, the Gauls have two aggression values, the higher earlier and the lower later, from memory its zero after Telamon.
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