Improving LH - Specifically Horse Archers May 21, 2023 13:33:58 GMT
Post by snowcat on May 21, 2023 13:33:58 GMT
Edit (August 7 2023):
When this thread was created, I attributed 40 paces to equaling 1 BW. Not sure where I got that from!
I've now replaced all my references to 40 paces with '1 BW' or '80 paces'. As I'm unable to similarly edit others' replies, just treat any remaining instances of 40 paces as 80 paces = 1 BW.
A while ago it occurred to me that perhaps providing LH with extra PIPs to do more things was not sufficiently addressing their intrinsic inadequacies under the Rules As Written in 3.0.
In other words, it's less about needing more PIPs, and more about improving what they actually do in the battle with the PIPs they receive (just like everything else).
Currently they're easy targets for Bw and Art, more than other Mounted. It's suicide moving LH anywhere near enemy Bw, especially if the Bw are in groups able to combine their shooting against the LH.
I believe that LH should be CF3 vs distant shooting, same as Cv. Reason: less protection but dispersed target vs clumped target. It should not be easier to shoot down LH than Cv. The overall density of the Cv formation makes a much juicier target than the dispersed LH. The LH are also moving more swiftly on average, potentially able to close more rapidly vs arrow storms being launched at them. (The same argument could possibly also be applied to Ps vs distant shooting.)
Shooting/Combat Option 1: 1BW (80-paces) distant shooting range/ability for horse archers, with CF2. If shooting at an enemy front, because of the Threat Zone occurring at 80-paces, the LH would not be able to combine their shooting, shooting instead as individual elements. They would be able to combine their shooting if not facing an enemy front edge (Threat Zone), and are bound by all other distant shooting rules. They may distant shoot after being recoiled. This certainly makes them feel more like horse archers. The extra distant shooting slows the game down slightly, but not more than an army possessing additional Bw for instance. It is still NOT a good idea for LH to engage Bw or Art in a shooting duel.
The same option could be extended to Cv horse archers - such as Avars, Turks, Mongols, etc - at the same distant shooting range of 1 BW (80-paces) and CF of 2, retaining their CF3 in close combat.
Potentially recoiling an enemy element or two from distant shooting in this way places additional PIP-strain on the enemy general: the need to redress the lines vs things he would rather be doing. Un-redressed (disordered) lines can then be exploited by the LH (& Cv) charging home.
Shooting/Combat Option 2: Alternatively, a QK option vs Sp/Pk/Bd & Kn could be worth pursuing (like the way it was under v2.2 vs Sp/Pk & Kn) and yes, the rear-support in 3.0 would then have to go. (No complaints there, as you don't really need a second element in support to imagine LH operating dispersed in depth, with supplies to the rear.) (The recent thread in the 2.2 section of the Forum with comments from Vodnik and Stevie assisted with this suggestion.)
If this option was deemed too potent, a 'QK on ties' or similar could be considered, like Bd vs Kn. (Or a 'recoil on ties' if the latter was still too strong.)
Also: faster elements should be able to break off from combat vs slower opponents, as mentioned by Stevie (this is one I've read numerous times before).
These are just some ideas I'm currently considering to improve LH (and possibly Cv horse archers as well). A work in progress.