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Post by dpd on Feb 25, 2023 22:48:23 GMT
Is it unpopular, and if so is there a reason?
Is it dated, superseded by 3.0?
Does it have a loyal niche following?
What are its pros and cons vs. 3.0?
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Post by lkmjbc on Feb 26, 2023 0:46:19 GMT
2.2 still has a few players. Some are folks that were turned-off by the often sour split in the community that occurred during DBA 3's long development. Some however simply didn't like the changes. Some haven't bought the new rule book till this day. (I ran into a fellow some time back that wasn't even aware there was a new Version.) The folks that split wrote their own set based on DBA and took most of the US tournament scene with them. Their rule set competes directly with DBA. They were as one would imagine very negative concerning V3. The pros of V3 are many. The first I think is that it has a vastly superior historical flavor. Many classic battles were difficult to recreate with V2. (Of course it is a game of 12 elements per side meant to be played to completion in an hour!) We developed V3 with this in mind. In that regard I feel like we did a good job. I wrote a book with this in mind! www.lulu.com/shop/joe-collins/great-battles-of-history-for-dba-3/paperback/product-22698172.html?page=1&pageSize=4The second is that DBA 3 eliminated many of the geographic tricks available under 2.2. I used many of these to win major tournaments. You really can't do this under DBA 3, though many have claimed them possible. I put a challenge in 2014 for someone to show me some. I still wait. The third is Phil's expanded army lists and historical background. That itself is a masterwork and even the competitors and all but the most obstinate detractors agree. The fourth is the clarity of the rules. Yes, I said that. It is true. DBA 2.2 despite being simpler and shorter took many years to shake out in the community and produce a common agreement on how to play the game. This didn't occur with V3. The greater clarity of the rules plus the added diagrams allowed the community to all play a common game within the first year from publishing. I will add that the FAQ has helped this as well. One nay-sayer assured me that DBA V3 would take years to troubleshoot. He was wrong. The fifth is that DBA V3 is more fun I think. The greater movement distances have produced a more free-wheeling game. Gone were the slow advances and micro-moves of DBA 2. This did take some changes in thinking I admit. But I find it more exciting. There are more pros... and of course, plenty of cons... All for now. Joe Collins |
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Post by vodnik on Feb 26, 2023 9:14:18 GMT
The difference between the two versions is the distance measurement. V3 is metric, but used to be measured in inches. This made flank attacks by heavy troops impossible. To do this, rule changes were introduced.
Some of the army lists in the new version are still made up or simply not accurate. Big battles were possible with additional rules like: BBDBA.
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Post by martin on Feb 26, 2023 9:39:28 GMT
2.2 still has a few players. Some are folks that were turned-off by the often sour split in the community that occurred during DBA 3's long development. Some however simply didn't like the changes. Some haven't bought the new rule book till this day. (I ran into a fellow some time back that wasn't even aware there was a new Version.) The folks that split wrote their own set based on DBA and took most of the US tournament scene with them. Their rule set competes directly with DBA. They were as one would imagine very negative concerning V3. The pros of V3 are many. The first I think is that it has a vastly superior historical flavor. Many classic battles were difficult to recreate with V2. (Of course it is a game of 12 elements per side meant to be played to completion in an hour!) We developed V3 with this in mind. In that regard I feel like we did a good job. I wrote a book with this in mind! www.lulu.com/shop/joe-collins/great-battles-of-history-for-dba-3/paperback/product-22698172.html?page=1&pageSize=4The second is that DBA 3 eliminated many of the geographic tricks available under 2.2. I used many of these to win major tournaments. You really can't do this under DBA 3, though many have claimed them possible. I put a challenge in 2014 for someone to show me some. I still wait. The third is Phil's expanded army lists and historical background. That itself is a masterwork and even the competitors and all but the most obstinate detractors agree. The fourth is the clarity of the rules. Yes, I said that. It is true. DBA 2.2 despite being simpler and shorter took many years to shake out in the community and produce a common agreement on how to play the game. This didn't occur with V3. The greater clarity of the rules plus the added diagrams allowed the community to all play a common game within the first year from publishing. I will add that the FAQ has helped this as well. One nay-sayer assured me that DBA V3 would take years to troubleshoot. He was wrong. The fifth is that DBA V3 is more fun I think. The greater movement distances have produced a more free-wheeling game. Gone were the slow advances and micro-moves of DBA 2. This did take some changes in thinking I admit. But I find it more exciting. There are more pros... and of course, plenty of cons... All for now. Joe Collins Very succinct reply, Joe 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 |
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Post by dpd on Feb 26, 2023 12:27:07 GMT
Joe - "The third is Phil's expanded army lists and historical background. That itself is a masterwork and even the competitors and all but the most obstinate detractors agree."
I may have a few quibbles with the rules but his army lists are nothing short of majestic.
Every wargame rule set should use them as the basis of army building.
(Could they do so without violating copyright?)
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Post by dpd on Feb 26, 2023 12:30:24 GMT
vodnik - "The difference between the two versions is the distance measurement. V3 is metric, but used to be measured in inches."
Does that matter? Distances are in base widths and 12 to 13 base widths equal a mile. Shouldn't matter whether the BW is in mms or inches.
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Post by Les1964 on Feb 26, 2023 12:35:13 GMT
I may have a few quibbles with the rules That's an understatement .  |
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Post by vodnik on Feb 27, 2023 8:10:28 GMT
dpd@ Distances in base widths is a definition of DBA3
The ground scale varies with the size of army represented, but for convenience 100 paces in real life is taken to be
equivalent to 25mm or 1” measured in the game if using 15mm or smaller figures, or to 40mm if using 25mm. (definition of DBA2)
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Post by stevie on Feb 27, 2023 9:33:47 GMT
I must confess that I and my mates gave up playing DBA 2.2 decades ago…
…soooooo long ago in fact that we have forgotten everything about it.
As I remember our main gripes were these:-
1) Too much artificial gamey positional trickery…
2) Far too unrealistic (the positional trickery mentioned
above plus Ps always being behind and never out in front
both spring to mind, as well as the terrain deployment,
element swapping when deploying, and much more).
DBA 3.0 is a vast improvement…
…mind you, it could still be improved further…
…without making it more complicated.
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Post by felixs on Feb 27, 2023 11:55:07 GMT
I like DBA 3 much better, due to more dynamic gameplay, more troop types (the "Fast" variation works great for my taste), the impressive army lists, and the speed of play.
While I agree with stevie that the rules could do with a revision and some minor changes, to make them even more clear and fluid, the speed and elaboration of play is unparalleled by any other set of rules.
Before DBA 3 came out, I was happy to play DBA 2.2, and even DBA 1 before that. All brilliant rules. Not sure I would want to play any of the DBx rules exclusively, but they are an integral part of my wargaming life.
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Post by Vic on Mar 7, 2023 9:34:11 GMT
In some countries DBA 2.2 is still the dominant ruleset in the tournament circuit...
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Post by peteduckworth on Mar 7, 2023 10:55:46 GMT
2.2 still has a few players. Some are folks that were turned-off by the often sour split in the community that occurred during DBA 3's long development. Some however simply didn't like the changes. Some haven't bought the new rule book till this day. (I ran into a fellow some time back that wasn't even aware there was a new Version.) The folks that split wrote their own set based on DBA and took most of the US tournament scene with them. Their rule set competes directly with DBA. They were as one would imagine very negative concerning V3. The pros of V3 are many. The first I think is that it has a vastly superior historical flavor. Many classic battles were difficult to recreate with V2. (Of course it is a game of 12 elements per side meant to be played to completion in an hour!) We developed V3 with this in mind. In that regard I feel like we did a good job. I wrote a book with this in mind! www.lulu.com/shop/joe-collins/great-battles-of-history-for-dba-3/paperback/product-22698172.html?page=1&pageSize=4The second is that DBA 3 eliminated many of the geographic tricks available under 2.2. I used many of these to win major tournaments. You really can't do this under DBA 3, though many have claimed them possible. I put a challenge in 2014 for someone to show me some. I still wait. The third is Phil's expanded army lists and historical background. That itself is a masterwork and even the competitors and all but the most obstinate detractors agree. The fourth is the clarity of the rules. Yes, I said that. It is true. DBA 2.2 despite being simpler and shorter took many years to shake out in the community and produce a common agreement on how to play the game. This didn't occur with V3. The greater clarity of the rules plus the added diagrams allowed the community to all play a common game within the first year from publishing. I will add that the FAQ has helped this as well. One nay-sayer assured me that DBA V3 would take years to troubleshoot. He was wrong. The fifth is that DBA V3 is more fun I think. The greater movement distances have produced a more free-wheeling game. Gone were the slow advances and micro-moves of DBA 2. This did take some changes in thinking I admit. But I find it more exciting. There are more pros... and of course, plenty of cons... All for now. Joe Collins As usual. Joe nailed it. |
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 7, 2023 16:25:54 GMT
I confess I started my DBA career with 2.2 and I really enjoyed it and its micro measuring.
But finally I converted to DBA 3. Much better!
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Post by davehollin on Mar 7, 2023 17:21:44 GMT
grids that is all  |
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Post by Baldie on Mar 7, 2023 20:14:53 GMT
grids that is all Burn him |
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