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Post by paulhannah on Feb 11, 2021 15:42:23 GMT
...having more than the recommended number of figures per base as... Paulhannah has done with his 4Pk? Oh, and not just my 4Pk elements, Stevie. I am, after all, a card-carrying member of Eric Donaldson's Basing Heresies. So, not just 10-figure, Solid Pike elements but... - 8Bw & 8Cb elements with up to 12 figures
- Solid Hordes with 9-12 figures
- Spears with 5-8 figures
- Artillery with two bold shooters or bombards
- Even Elephants with two Jumbos
All on legal-sized bases, of course. I just prefer the look, that's all. 'Course it helps that many of my armies are comprised of Mikes Models, cast long before scale-creep set in.
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Post by paddy649 on Feb 11, 2021 17:57:01 GMT
Stevie,
Having all your heavy foot on bases ½ a BW deep because you “hate it when figures or their weapons overhang their base edges” seems to fall into the category of making allowance for over large figures and could be considered within the rules. However, if you were fighting someone with the same figures who didn’t have such a hang up they could call foul!
But then you go on to say it “also means that when they recoil they automatically form up into nice neat straight lines with lighter foot, denying my opponent overlaps.” This means that you are doing it for tactical advantage and so is outside the rules.
So here we have an occasion where the intent in a players mind needs to be taken into consideration when deciding whether they are cheating or not! Which doesn’t seem very satisfactory for a set of rules. It’s sort of like golf saying “play the ball where it lies, unless you don’t want to and nobody notices you move it.” Saying “my opponent could do the same if they wanted” is the Lance Armstrong defence and doesn’t stand up to any real scrutiny.
I suppose it isn’t as bad as Wwg that can have bases between 40mm - 80mm at a players whim!
P.S. My tongue is firmly in my cheek with this thread! 😃
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Post by stevie on Feb 11, 2021 19:15:48 GMT
Ha! Well Paddy me old matey... ...are you saying that I can only have my heavy foot on ½ a BW deep bases If I deliberately go out and buy oversized figures? So some players are permitted the luxury of 20mm bases, with the advantages of recoiling without overlaps, but for others it’s a case of tough luck...their smaller figures must be on 15mm deep bases. Should larger oversized figures be allowed to have an advantage? (Good for me, as many of mine are made by Xyston!)Here’s an alternative thought:- instead of one set of players dictating how other players should base their figures, how about allowing players to choose? (within the DBA rule limits of course). Those that want 15mm deep bases can stay with them. Those that want 20mm deep bases can also have them. Nobody likes re-basing, not even me, so to make my older smaller bases compatible with the 20mm deep Xyston bases I simply glued them on to 40mm x 20mm pieces of thin card and then used Milliput or putty to fill in the the extra space, suitably flocked of course. Now no figure overhanging, all heavy bases are compatible, and all have the same recoiling advantages, no matter what the figure size. It’s either that or a form of apartheid to segregate the 20mm deep large figure players from the 15mm deep small figure players... (Tongue also firmly in cheek in case I swallow it!)  |
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Post by paddy649 on Feb 11, 2021 23:50:25 GMT
That is absolutely what the rules say. You shouldn’t base on larger base depths for tactical reasons but only if the figures don’t fit on the smaller base or you previously based them for a different rule set.
To quote “Stevie the Professor Emeritus from Fanaticus University” - “I didn’t write the rules!”
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Post by stevie on Feb 12, 2021 1:13:43 GMT
Very well then... ...you can only use the deeper bases if you buy the oversized figures. If you buy smaller figures, then you’re stuck with the smaller base depths. Conclusion: buy Xyston figures if you want a tactical advantage.  |
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Post by Haardrada on Feb 12, 2021 1:39:10 GMT
Gentlemen aren't you forgetting that the size of bases and the placing of figures can be relevent in Feng Shui.
So the choice of base size is a personal ballance in your own natural space to create harmony on your table top. 😁
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Post by paddy649 on Feb 12, 2021 8:25:06 GMT
Very well then... ...you can only use the deeper bases if you buy the oversized figures. If you buy smaller figures, then you’re stuck with the smaller base depths. Conclusion: buy Xyston figures if you want a tactical advantage. Which brings to the moral question about whether buying Xyston minis with the sole intention of basing them on bigger bases to gain a tactical advantage is legal, gamesmanship or cheating? 😱🤯 |
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Post by stevie on Feb 12, 2021 9:03:58 GMT
...so ban Xyston and other oversized minis... ...or have Xyston only tournaments... (“I didn’t invent oversized figures”) |
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Post by sheffmark on Feb 12, 2021 9:38:23 GMT
You can also have deeper base sizes to "accommodate figures based for other rule sets" so you don't have to pick on Xyston. Therefore you only need to say you play with other rules that have heavy infantry on deeper bases. Presumably these could even be house rules!
Interestingly Paddy, I don't think you can have any base depth between 40mm and 80mm for War Wagons, as War Wagons and generals are the only troop type which specifically says "or" between the two depths. So as I read it you can have either 40mm or 80mm deep bases. All other variations uses the 15-20 which maybe implies you could have a 17mm deep base!!
However having a Hussite army which has horses with all the wagons and are therefore on 80mm deep bases, they can be a right pain to manoeuvre.
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Post by paddy649 on Feb 12, 2021 10:18:35 GMT
You are right Sheffmark - it is 40mm or 80mm. But with the DBA accepted definition of “or” this means that you an have any combination of 40mm and 80mm bases in your army.
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Post by martin on Feb 12, 2021 10:19:04 GMT
Gentlemen aren't you forgetting that the size of bases and the placing of figures can be relevent in Feng Shui. So the choice of base size is a personal ballance in your own natural space to create harmony on your table top. 😁 I assume that Neil from The Young Ones assisted in the writing of this post.....🙃 (“15mm deep bases, bummer, maaan........”). |
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Post by robert on Feb 12, 2021 11:56:07 GMT
Hppe you are saying 20mm heavy foot are ok as long as they fight same based armies. this may limit number of casual opponents you play. One downer?a A 2 rank line of 20mm based heavy foot hit in flank 15 mm get recoil 20mm 1st rank destroyed.
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Post by stevie on Feb 12, 2021 12:12:56 GMT
There is another possible solution to this 15mm-20mm base depth dilemma... ...change the recoiling rules to say:- “All foot recoil ½ a BW, or their base depth if that is larger.” ...then both large and small figures will recoil 20mm, no matter their size, and everybody gets the recoiling tactical advantage, even 15mm deep bases. (However, whenever I suggest changing the rules I’m usually criticized for it)  |
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 12, 2021 15:24:54 GMT
There is another possible solution to this 15mm-20mm base depth dilemma... ...change the recoiling rules to say:- “All foot recoil ½ a BW, or their base depth if that is larger.” ...then both large and small figures will recoil 20mm, no matter their size, and everybody gets the recoiling tactical advantage, even 15mm deep bases. That is the oh-so-obvious, house-rule, solution to this (ahem) dilemma. It's how our local DBA group has been handling this for so long now, that I thought that's how the rule was actually stated. Stevie's suggestion is also consistent with how the Pursuit move does read in Purple. |
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Post by snowcat on Feb 12, 2021 21:48:30 GMT
There is another possible solution to this 15mm-20mm base depth dilemma... ...change the recoiling rules to say:- “All foot recoil ½ a BW, or their base depth if that is larger.” ...then both large and small figures will recoil 20mm, no matter their size, and everybody gets the recoiling tactical advantage, even 15mm deep bases. (However, whenever I suggest changing the rules I’m usually criticized for it) Yarp.
I'm putting 2 ranks of foot on 20mm deep bases. The heavier the foot, the more figures and the more even the distribution. 15mm deep bases means only 1 rank and I really dislike the look, especially for heavy foot.
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