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Post by paulisper on Jun 20, 2020 16:10:56 GMT
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Post by Baldie on Jun 20, 2020 16:57:31 GMT
Way to go guys there's another four days wasted. Personally I have always thought the whole being exactly 40mm away was a bit odd. Presumably the chariot is now touching two elements one on each side edge. Gets to turn into whichever it chooses for free in its turn? |
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Post by menacussecundus on Jun 20, 2020 17:29:21 GMT
Way to go guys there's another four days wasted. Personally I have always thought the whole being exactly 40mm away was a bit odd. Presumably the chariot is now touching two elements one on each side edge. Gets to turn into whichever it chooses for free in its turn? But one of them - the LCh - is a friendly element, so I think we can rule out turning to face that. Two main schools of thought seem to be (a) it turns to face the Cv or (b) the corner to corner contact with the Cv counts as front edge to side edge contact meaning it can't recoil and is destroyed instead. I'm going to throw in a third possibility (c) as the rules make no specific provision about what happens, it doesn't turn to face automatically and in its turn it can make any legal move open to it (i) turn to face the Cv (using a PIP to do so), (ii) move towards or into contact with the Bd, (iii) move directly backwards or (iv) stay still. |
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Post by Baldie on Jun 20, 2020 17:33:55 GMT
Ah didnt realise one was a friend
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Post by stevie on Jun 20, 2020 18:37:35 GMT
Oh no...Iβm not going to be drawn into another one of these discussions! π€ͺ
Suffice it to say, these appear to be the relevant rules.
Moving Into Contact [on page 9]:-
γγ* Elements contacted this bound by an enemy or whose front-edge is still in contact
---βΊ when combat ends automatically conform.
γγ* A single element contacting a single (enemy) element conforms to it.
γγ* Unless turning to face a flank or rear contact (see p.10), contacted elements conform at contact.
(and you cannot break-off or move away from an enemy front-edge except as a combat outcome)
These rules do not appear to be applicable:-
Destroyed Elements [on page 12]:-
γγ* An element that has an enemy front-edge in contact with its side or rear-edge is destroyed by recoiling.
(not relevant as at the time of combat it did not have an enemy front-edge in contact with its side or rear-edge)
Recoiling [on page 12]:-
γγ*A recoiling or pushed back element whose rear-edge or rear-corner meets an obstacle ends its move there.
γγ An element already in such contact with any of these obstacles cannot recoil and is destroyed instead.
γγ(not relevant as I assume βmeetingβ means trying to enter, and not just touching)
γγ
By the way, the Roman player, whoβs bound it is, missed a golden opportunity.
If he had fought the 3Bd v LCh first, then the LCh would have been unable to recoil.
Fighting the Cv v LCh first is what created the space for the 3Bd v LCh to recoil into.
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Post by menacussecundus on Jun 20, 2020 19:34:54 GMT
The slight problem I have with that stevie is that turning to flank or rear occurs "immediately after the movement phase", which I have always understood to mean (2) in the sequence of play set out on page 8.
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Post by Baldie on Jun 20, 2020 19:54:02 GMT
If chariot that is recoiled is still in the ZOC of the blade by touching its for edge edge it is also presumably now in contact with the cav.
Does the being in contact over rule the being lined up in the blades threat zone.
If it is in contact and that contact takes precedence do we just have to work out when conforming takes place, again I presume the chariot has not the choice to stay where it is as it is in contact.
So does it conform for free at the end of that phase or the begining of the next, sounds like end of current phase but a combat is not fought till next.
If any of that makes any sense I would be surprised.
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Post by Roland on Jun 20, 2020 20:03:07 GMT
who's bound is it?
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Post by Baldie on Jun 20, 2020 20:35:21 GMT
Pubs are still on lockdown
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Post by Roland on Jun 20, 2020 20:42:32 GMT
Pubs are still on lockdown That's a total boo. Sorry to hear that. Still... Our watering holes have been reopened in the past couple of weeks but being served by folks wearing masks just feels off. Haven't gone out beyond getting take away from time to time. ( but to be clear. I did say "bound" not "round"  )
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Post by menacussecundus on Jun 20, 2020 21:07:47 GMT
The combat occurred in the Roman's bound. |
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Post by michaelw on Jun 20, 2020 21:51:28 GMT
Page 12, Turning to face a flank or rear in contact: "Immediately after the movement phase, elements contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front edge of the first enemy to contact them unless they are already in full front edge contact with another enemy element or providing rear support." This means the chariot turns to face the CV in the Irish turn, assuming this rule applies.
On page 14, Recoiling or being pushed back: "A recoiling or pushed back element whose rear edge or rear corner meets terrain it cannot enter, a battlefield edge, friends it cannot pass through or pushback, enemy or a city, fort or camp ends its move there.". The chariot has not met enemy according to the scenario shown, so is not in contact, despite the closeness of the matter. Had it done so its move would have stopped immediately on reaching the CV element due to its rear corner meeting the enemy element. This allows the chariot to move normally in the next (Irish) turn. However, its options are constrained by the TZ of the CV. If it moved to attack the blades, it would violate the CV TZ by moving in a disallowed direction. Turing to face the CV does not violate the blades TZ as the chariot is not in it (despite being exactly a base width away). With the expenditure of a pip; it can turn to face the CV without being in contact, contact the CV or move backwards a full move (and likely take it off table).
My own view is the situation is contrived and/or illegal. The likelyhood of all these elements being in exactly the required configuration is improbable. Any deviation from the perpendicular of the recoil, even the slightest, would either stop the recoil or leave a sliver of space between the chariot and the cavalry. If not, the chariot is destroyed by being unable to recoil, its rear corner already having rear corner to front corner contact with an enemy element at the point the combat is resolved. This is my preferred resolution.
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Post by Roland on Jun 20, 2020 21:56:48 GMT
The combat occurred in the Roman's bound. So, Briton's bound begins. He is already now contacted on his flank, he must, therefore turn to face IMO |
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Post by paulisper on Jun 20, 2020 22:15:05 GMT
The key to this is two-fold:
1 - Does the corner-to-corner contact apply here? If so, then the chariot cannot recoil and is destroyed. Initially, I was opposed to this perspective, but if you apply the concept of overlapping in combat to this situation, then you could say that the chariot and Cv are in corner-to-corner contact and the chariot is destroyed, as it cannot start its recoil move
2 - If you do allow the recoil, then I believe the chariot should turn at the end of the combat round and fight the Cv next bound
P.
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Post by paulisper on Jun 20, 2020 22:18:23 GMT
My own view is the situation is contrived and/or illegal. The likelihood of all these elements being in exactly the required configuration is improbable. Any deviation from the perpendicular of the recoil, even the slightest, would either stop the recoil or leave a sliver of space between the chariot and the cavalry. If not, the chariot is destroyed by being unable to recoil, its rear corner already having rear corner to front corner contact with an enemy element at the point the combat is resolved. This is my preferred resolution. It's improbable, yes, but not impossible. In the example, it looks like the Cv had recoiled the first chariot and then the Bd recoiled the second chariot. You have to ask how the player commanding the chariot force had got himself into this mess in the first place!! P. |
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