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Post by goragrad on Jun 14, 2019 10:36:22 GMT
Or one can look at the Threat Zone definition -
"THREAT ZONE
The area 1 BW deep in front of any edge of a War Wagon or the front edge of any other element, or the area within 1 BW of any point of a camp, city or fort containing enemy is its Threat Zone (TZ). An element or group which is at least partly within or whose front edge enters an enemy TZ or touches its far edge can move only: (a) to line up its front edge with one such enemy generating the TZ or (b) to advance into or towards contact with such an enemy or (c) if a single element straight back to its own rear for the entire move. TZs do not effect outcome moves."
Based on that wording, any edge of a WWG element acts as a front edge for determining 'threat.' A WWG can also 'shoot' from any edge.
Perhaps a clarification based on the troop tyoe definition for war wagons, the Threat Zone definition, and the distant shooting rules would be -
"Until the first contact by an enemy determines a front edge for close combat, or when moving, all edges of a WWG are front edges."
In any case, should an element be in 'side to side' contact with a WWG during the distant combat phase, the WWG could (and in fact would be required) to shoot at it.
Pity there is no modifier for enfilading fire...
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Post by stevie on Jun 14, 2019 13:54:44 GMT
Those are very good points Goragrad. Yes, a WWg exerts a Threat Zone from all four sides, and can shoot from all four sides. Although only one side, the “shooting edge”, can shoot per bound...see the FAQ. And since a WWg (and Bows) must shoot at a target in their TZ, any WWg that finds itself in mutual side-edge contact with an enemy must shoot at it, if they can, even though they may actually be touching that enemy. However, I still think that the intent of the “Turning To Face” section on page 10 paragraph 1 is:- “Elements contacted to flank or rear by an enemy front-edge turn to face the first enemy element to contact them... ... (But) War Wagons count the edge first contacted as its front-edge, so does not turn.” So only an enemy front-edge contacting a flank or rear triggers turning-to-face or WWg front-edge swapping. Some Helpful Downloads can be found here: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes And here is the latest Jan 2019 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2019_1st_Quarter
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Post by decebalus on Jun 24, 2019 18:12:57 GMT
Maybe it is because my mother tongue isnt english, but it is so clear to me.
DavidJConstable: "The important word is MOVE. If a WWg etc end up at the end of combat as an overlap, it is IN CONTACT, therefore the word MOVE does not apply, you are not MOVING INTO CONTACT as you are already IN contact."
Move in contact means you move and you end in contact! Where do you get, that being in contact at the start has any relevance?
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Post by goragrad on Jun 25, 2019 10:50:01 GMT
The point David was making decebalus is that the wording to 'move into contact' - if one is already in contact, then as noted the element isn't moving 'into' contact but just changing the nature of the contact.
On one further note, it is interesting that when forced to conform to a group or turning to face the troop types in question are 'moving into contact' involuntarily which is acceptable but which the consensus states they cannot do on their own initiative - any of these units in side to side, rear to rear, side to rear, etc. contact can only move away in their own phase...
Should a friendly element attack the enemy element they couldn't even change facing to 'close the door' or provide a rear attack bonus (depending on the opposing units facing). Seems particularly egregious for a WWg based on my previous points.
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