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Post by Cromwell on May 28, 2019 7:23:47 GMT
Can overlapping or units giving side support still "Close the door" during their bound?
Seem to keep missing this in 3.0
Thanks
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Post by paulisper on May 28, 2019 8:05:11 GMT
Yes, so long as another unit’s TZ doesn’t prevent it... 😉
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Post by davidjconstable on May 28, 2019 8:09:29 GMT
As far as I know yes, have done it in the few games of DBA3 I have played, somebody will let you know the rule sections.
Your query caused me to look up Art and WWg etc. closing the door.
The rules still count an overlap as corner to contact, so moving from an overlap to close the door is not actually moving into contact (you are already in contact). So the section about not moving into contact does not apply. Was this ever officially clarified in DBA3 as not being permitted from an overlap, or is it still a grey area?
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Post by Vic on May 28, 2019 8:12:29 GMT
Note that a unit with a movement allowance of just 1 BW doesn't have enough movement to go from corner overlap or side support to closing the door - the distance it has to move is sqrt(2) BW.
Otherwise, unless in another element's TZ restricting its options as paulisper mentioned, I don't see why not.
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Post by davidjconstable on May 28, 2019 10:24:50 GMT
Note that a unit with a movement allowance of just 1 BW don't have enough movement to go from corner overlap or side support to closing the door - the distance it has to move is sqrt(2) BW. Otherwise, unless in another element's TZ restricting its options as paulisper mentioned, I don't see why not. Thanks, that seems to be a change between DBA2.2 and DBA3. It makes sense.
Having eliminated all my old rules I have bought a DBA3, this is when I need a DBA2.2 as well. Looking forward to a post PB DBA7.1.
David Constable
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Post by paddy649 on May 28, 2019 11:09:19 GMT
Can overlapping or units giving side support still "Close the door" during their bound? Seem to keep missing this in 3.0 Thanks My thoughts: Can overlapping units close the door (I assume his is in mutual front corner to front corner support) - yes if they have the PIPs and move distance. This is because they start entirely beyond a line prolonging the side edge. Can units giving side support close the door - yes if they have PIPs and movement but if they do so they are no longer have mutual side edge contact so no longer provide flank support (you’d need a unit providing flank support on the opposite flank to claim this. |
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Post by Baldie on May 28, 2019 14:58:12 GMT
It is the Grayson effect
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Post by Cromwell on May 28, 2019 19:38:16 GMT
Thanks all. That is how I have been playing it.
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Post by bob on May 29, 2019 19:12:44 GMT
As far as I know yes, have done it in the few games of DBA3 I have played, somebody will let you know the rule sections. Your query caused me to look up Art and WWg etc. closing the door. The rules still count an overlap as corner to contact, so moving from an overlap to close the door is not actually moving into contact (you are already in contact). So the section about not moving into contact does not apply. Was this ever officially clarified in DBA3 as not being permitted from an overlap, or is it still a grey area? “. CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with any enemy …“
I’m confused by the last paragraph above. David, are you saying that an artillery, war wagon or other such types can move from overlapping to flanking an enemy. The rule does not say moving from not contact into contact, the rule says they cannot move into any contact. These specific types cannot have moved into corner contact in the first place, so the enemy moved to contact them. They cannot then close the door because they are not allowed to move into contact with an enemy. Or am I miss reading the statement? |
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Post by sheffmark on May 30, 2019 18:56:11 GMT
As far as I know yes, have done it in the few games of DBA3 I have played, somebody will let you know the rule sections. Your query caused me to look up Art and WWg etc. closing the door. The rules still count an overlap as corner to contact, so moving from an overlap to close the door is not actually moving into contact (you are already in contact). So the section about not moving into contact does not apply. Was this ever officially clarified in DBA3 as not being permitted from an overlap, or is it still a grey area? “. CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with any enemy …“
I’m confused by the last paragraph above. David, are you saying that an artillery, war wagon or other such types can move from overlapping to flanking an enemy. The rule does not say moving from not contact into contact, the rule says they cannot move into any contact. These specific types cannot have moved into corner contact in the first place, so the enemy moved to contact them. They cannot then close the door because they are not allowed to move into contact with an enemy. Or am I miss reading the statement? If they are already in corner to corner contact with an enemy that's contacted friends on their flank, it could be argued they are moving whilst already in contact with that enemy and hence are not moving into contact???!!! However the rules actually say "CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with enemy ........" (my emphasis) I would argue that corner to corner contact is different to flank contact so therefore they can't initiate a move that would change the type of contact. But that's just my view. |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on May 30, 2019 19:24:55 GMT
“. CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with any enemy …“
I’m confused by the last paragraph above. David, are you saying that an artillery, war wagon or other such types can move from overlapping to flanking an enemy. The rule does not say moving from not contact into contact, the rule says they cannot move into any contact. These specific types cannot have moved into corner contact in the first place, so the enemy moved to contact them. They cannot then close the door because they are not allowed to move into contact with an enemy. Or am I miss reading the statement? If they are already in corner to corner contact with an enemy that's contacted friends on their flank, it could be argued they are moving whilst already in contact with that enemy and hence are not moving into contact???!!! However the rules actually say "CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with enemy ........" (my emphasis) I would argue that corner to corner contact is different to flank contact so therefore they can't initiate a move that would change the type of contact. But that's just my view. I would agree with you. |
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Post by menacussecundus on May 30, 2019 19:58:47 GMT
If they are already in corner to corner contact with an enemy that's contacted friends on their flank, it could be argued they are moving whilst already in contact with that enemy and hence are not moving into contact???!!! However the rules actually say "CP, Lit, CWg, Art or WWg cannot move into any contact with enemy ........" (my emphasis) I would argue that corner to corner contact is different to flank contact so therefore they can't initiate a move that would change the type of contact. But that's just my view. I would agree with you. Interesting. And if they start in front corner to front corner contact can they then move forward so that they are in side edge to side edge contact? This wouldn't be closing the door, but it might put another enemy element in their TZ or within range of the WWg - or, if the enemy element is Ps or SCh, give a -1 penalty which would not be the case otherwise. |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on May 30, 2019 20:11:49 GMT
Interesting. And if they start in front corner to front corner contact can they then move forward so that they are in side edge to side edge contact? This wouldn't be closing the door, but it might put another enemy element in their TZ or within range of the WWg - or, if the enemy element is Ps or SCh, give a -1 penalty which would not be the case otherwise. We have played that they cannot. Also, if they happen to get into contact they can only move to get out of contact immediately, which would include NOT allowing them to slide by another enemy. At least that is how we have played it because it seems to us THAT is what is in the spirit of the rules. |
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Post by menacussecundus on May 30, 2019 21:37:11 GMT
Interesting. And if they start in front corner to front corner contact can they then move forward so that they are in side edge to side edge contact? This wouldn't be closing the door, but it might put another enemy element in their TZ or within range of the WWg - or, if the enemy element is Ps or SCh, give a -1 penalty which would not be the case otherwise. We have played that they cannot. Also, if they happen to get into contact they can only move to get out of contact immediately, which would include NOT allowing them to slide by another enemy. At least that is how we have played it because it seems to us THAT is what is in the spirit of the rules. How about if they moved far enough forward that they were no longer in side edge to side edge contact? Presumably that would be okay? |
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Post by bob on May 31, 2019 19:19:08 GMT
I believe the intent of this rule is to prevent these specific types of elements Moving such that they end in any form of contact with the enemy. If they happen to start in contact due to enemy move, they can stay, or move out of contact. If in some contact with the enemy, due to enemy move, they cannot expand that contact, Such as turning to flank or moving into any overlap. They could slide along an edge as long as they ended the move not in contact with enemy.
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