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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 24, 2016 16:36:42 GMT
Green based player's bound. The Auxilia moves around avoiding the ZOC of the Armenian Cataphract (they have plenty of movement) and they enter the X-ray ZOC of both the LH AND the Cataphract at the same time choosing to make best efforts for contact of the LH to its front.  The final position is as follows: If this can even be done, does the LH have the choice to move over 1/2 BW to align with the Aux (and therefore removing the -1 flank on the Aux the Cataphract is fighting) or keep the closed door on the Aux the Cataphract is fighting, but fight as a -1 vs. the other Auxilia.  |
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Post by medievalthomas on Aug 24, 2016 17:03:25 GMT
I think the LH now has to conform OR fight as if overlapped.
If it chooses latter it would still remain in Flank Lock position. You would want to resolve the LH fight first to try and push off.
TomT
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 24, 2016 17:13:45 GMT
I think the LH now has to conform OR fight as if overlapped. If it chooses latter it would still remain in Flank Lock position. You would want to resolve the LH fight first to try and push off. TomT Thanks, Tom. That is "what made sense" but as you know that is not always "correct."  |
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doug
Munifex
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Post by doug on Aug 24, 2016 20:07:41 GMT
which raises the question, why wouldn't the Auxilia move back, across, and make legal flank contact with the LH - this then conforms, the Ax fights the LH (with an overlap), and if it wins, removes both the flank lock and overlap from his other element.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 24, 2016 20:12:25 GMT
which raises the question, why wouldn't the Auxilia move back, across, and make legal flank contact with the LH - this then conforms, the Ax fights the LH (with an overlap), and if it wins, removes both the flank lock and overlap from his other element. Because you have to start on the flank of the LH to contact it on the flank. |
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doug
Munifex
Posts: 12
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Post by doug on Aug 24, 2016 20:26:15 GMT
which raises the question, why wouldn't the Auxilia move back, across, and make legal flank contact with the LH - this then conforms, the Ax fights the LH (with an overlap), and if it wins, removes both the flank lock and overlap from his other element. Because you have to start on the flank of the LH to contact it on the flank. Yep - and I should know that, as it is the same in DBMM. I would go to the general principle that elements that would fight in real life should. However in DBMM if it is your own elements preventing legal contact, then the move is cancelled. |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 24, 2016 21:05:41 GMT
This combat situation illustrated above is a perfect example of why our group prefers DBA 3.0 to any other version.  DBA 3.0 is the only one where this type of combat (which would happen in RL) is allowed to happen on the game board. |
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Post by sydwargamer on Aug 25, 2016 0:51:36 GMT
DBA v2.2 allows the Auxillia to contact the flank of the Light Horse.
I am not sure whether either result would resemble what one would expect to happen in real life.
I think that in real life the Light Horse would end up fighting both units of Auxllia, irrespective of where the second unit of Auxillia contacted them. |
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Post by lkmjbc on Aug 25, 2016 1:48:36 GMT
This combat situation illustrated above is a perfect example of why our group prefers DBA 3.0 to any other version. DBA 3.0 is the only one where this type of combat (which would happen in RL) is allowed to happen on the game board. I concur Tony. All my old tournament winning tricks (and I have won many) went out the door. I do however think that the improvements with Pike, Blade, Bow and other element types also greatly justify 3.0. Joe Collins |
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Post by sheffmark on Aug 25, 2016 13:22:21 GMT
I think the LH now has to conform OR fight as if overlapped. If it chooses latter it would still remain in Flank Lock position. You would want to resolve the LH fight first to try and push off. TomT Thanks, Tom. That is "what made sense" but as you know that is not always "correct." |
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Post by sheffmark on Aug 25, 2016 13:26:06 GMT
Strange position but looks right from what the rules say, (I think).
Though those Ax look like Bw to me, which if true means the LH were facing a 1-4 if they stayed? Also the Ax/Bw presumably weren't bothered about stopping the other Ax recoil as they've be destroyed by Kn anyway?
What actually happenend?
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 25, 2016 13:33:35 GMT
Strange position but looks right from what the rules say, (I think). Though those Ax look like Bw to me, which if true means the LH were facing a 1-4 if they stayed? Also the Ax/Bw presumably weren't bothered about stopping the other Ax recoil as they've be destroyed by Kn anyway? What actually happenend? Those Bw were all pretending to be 3Ax for this battle. We don't always have the correct figures for our match-up so we morph them. In this battle my opponent recoiled the LH first and then also recoiled the Cataphract. |
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Post by sheffmark on Aug 25, 2016 13:44:28 GMT
Sometimes the dice just aren't with you!
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Aug 25, 2016 14:34:47 GMT
Sometimes the dice just aren't with you! Well, I did win this game (eventually.) I have lost hundreds of games of DBA, which is just a fact when you have played over a THOUSAND.  If this brings you down just remember, the other guy is trying to win also.  |
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Post by medievalthomas on Aug 26, 2016 14:22:21 GMT
Some rule lawyery stuff from the situation Tony presented.
Initial line up:
Suppose the Aux player did not fully slide into contact with his own element but left a small gap (so his element had recoil room) saying I can't fully line up so LH has to line up. If the LH choose to line up then that would leave a small gap so that the other Aux could Recoil. Can you do this?
No. Intent of the rule is that a element must attempt to line up as much as possible before invoking the contacted element must line up or fight overlapped rule.
Pursuit:
What if the element the Aux contacted was of a type that Pursued? If the Pursuers win do they break Flank Lock and hook round the corner to Pursue?
Will probably toss this up to the FAQ committee but as that august body decides slowly and sometimes not at all, for now I'll suggest that elements do not Pursue out of Close Combat so that the Flank Locking element stays put.
Player feedback welcome as to how this should be handled. Bear in mind that triads about the incompetence of the Designer/Developers/playtesters and those asserting that Phil's writing style is an affront to civilized discourse while perhaps having great merit do not help solve the problem presented.
TomT
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