|
|
Post by bob on Jun 15, 2018 16:43:35 GMT
I was recently thinking about arable terrain. Compulsory terrain is a BUA or 2 plough. One of the optional choices is extra plough. The question I have is, if a player does not take compulsory plough, Can he take an optional extra one. To some, extra means in addition to. Can a player take a BUA and 1-3 “extra” plough?
|
|
|
|
Post by jim1973 on Jun 15, 2018 17:09:11 GMT
Can a player take a BUA and 1-3 “extra” plough? I think the answer is "yes" as it meets all the other requirements. The role of the word "extra" seems clearer in the other situations on the terrain chart (FOREST, HILLY, TROPICAL). But it seems reasonable that a battle can occur over a large area of farmland in ARABLE. It's a bit unusual that it's not present in other areas but probably good as I can see it dominating terrain placement and ending up with featureless battlefields 5/6 times. As an aside, are players seeing "patterns" forming in terrain placement to maximise/minimise advantages for specific armies? Cheers Jim |
|
|
|
Post by Tony Aguilar on Jun 15, 2018 17:28:01 GMT
We play that it CAN be taken.
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jun 15, 2018 20:11:40 GMT
I have always taken it to mean a separate category. In our view, the 1 BUA is substituting for the terrain requirement of 1-2 plough. Hence we read "extra" to mean "extra to the1-2 plough or their equivalent".
Seems weird and counterintuitive that an area like Flanders has a maximum of just ONE plough if you also have a hamlet. So villages are built as far as possible from the farmers' fields that support said village with food and trade? I mean, wouldn't want to have to only have a short walk to all your crops, now would you?. No, that would just not make sense at all...
|
|
|
|
Post by Les1964 on Jun 15, 2018 21:27:33 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by jim1973 on Jun 15, 2018 22:18:49 GMT
I think "extra" was meant to clarify that you can take the same type of terrain in your compulsory and you optional choices, so long as you don't have more than three of the same type.
Jim
|
|
|
|
Post by bob on Jun 16, 2018 2:33:14 GMT
lesp1964, I thought I had seen this before. Thanks for the link, good memory.
primuspilus, do note that as compulsory terrain, it is not A BUA or 1-2 Plough, it is exactly 2 Plough.
So far, no consensus. Given that the question is here and Yahoo, and there are a variety of answers, this is fodder for the FAQ
|
|
|
|
Post by goragrad on Jun 16, 2018 8:47:31 GMT
Strict interpretation of RAW says you get 'extra' plough if you took plough in the compulsory.
However, as noted by primuspilus, a village, town, or city with no plough allowed in the vicinity would be ahistorical for most of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by jim1973 on Jun 16, 2018 12:58:16 GMT
Strict interpretation of RAW says you get 'extra' plough if you took plough in the compulsory. However, as noted by primuspilus, a village, town, or city with no plough allowed in the vicinity would be ahistorical for most of them. True. Then the word may have been inserted to specifically to limit Plough. Woods (FOREST, TROPICAL) and Difficult Hills (HILLY) are the only other features with "extra" and they are compulsory. I agree that this seems unusual historically but maybe Phil didn't want Plough and BUA on the same battlefield. Maybe he wanted to encourage Enclosures (which strangely need a "natural" shape even though they are fenced!) near BUAs as otherwise you can take a BUA and 2-3 Plough and have a 5/6 chance of a billiard table. If that is the intention then I can live with it, even if it doesn't seem right. Hopefully someone from the testing team/FAQ committee can help enlighten us. Cheers Jim PS How are you modelling Enclosures? |
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jun 16, 2018 13:19:31 GMT
Since "Hilly" terrain has hills as compulsory, as well as optional, terrain, and there is no mention of "extra" for such hills (iirc), can we just delete the word "extra" in front of "plough" in the ARABLE terrain description?
I suggest the "extra" is confusing and redundant.
|
|
|
|
Post by primuspilus on Jun 16, 2018 13:24:38 GMT
I am not modeling enclosures. It is just flavour with no effect on the game beyond that it is "rough". I just use "rough" that is sufficiently "green" for Arable-looking landscapes.
Typically ... a shrubbery.
Even in my tropical battles, I am more likely to model rice paddies as part of a BUA, rather than separately.
Also since I always think of enclosures as having straight sides, but only BUA and plough are supposed to be that way (as per the rules), it just didn't "look" right putting rectangular paddocks on a curvy patch of terrain.
BTW you can model "plough" as rice paddies in an Asian battle setting as well, with the '1' meaning they are very badly flooded and muddy, due to monsoons!
I am trying to limit the amount of terrain I have to lug around with me for a game on a 2'x2' board!
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jun 16, 2018 14:01:49 GMT
I’m as lazy as Primuspilus, and just slap down a brownish-green curved piece of card with sand glued on it:- If it’s a Hamlet, plonk some huts on it... If it’s a Wood, stand some trees on it... If it’s an Enclosure, put loose model railway walls or hedges around it... If it’s Scrub, sprinkle some lichen on it... If it’s Rocky, thrown some gravel on it... If it’s Boggy, spill some beer on it...  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by Simon on Jun 17, 2018 7:44:53 GMT
I’m as lazy as Primuspilus, and just slap down a brownish-green curved piece of card with sand glued on it:- If it’s a Hamlet, plonk some huts on it... If it’s a Wood, stand some trees on it... If it’s an Enclosure, put loose model railway walls or hedges around it... If it’s Scrub, sprinkle some lichen on it... If it’s Rocky, thrown some gravel on it... If it’s Boggy, spill some beer on it... Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
Beer Stevie! I always imagined you a refined character from the home counties who is more likely to be sipping vintage port over his games! Simon |
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Jun 17, 2018 10:02:06 GMT
Naaa Simon: being an old ex-London cockney, beer and cider is my cultural heritage (I know my place in society). Besides, vintage port is too sticky, and clings to the bottom of the elements...although it does help them to stay on hills. I’ve been racking my brain (which didn’t take long!) to think of another word that Phil Barker could have used instead of “extra”:- Additional, more, further, bonus, supplementary, accompanying...but they all imply having some plough in the first place. The best I can come up with is “other plough”. Perhaps it’s better to do as Primuspilus suggested, and leave out the word “extra” altogether. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
|
|
|
|
Post by jim1973 on Jun 17, 2018 15:22:21 GMT
Naaa Simon: being an old ex-London cockney, beer and cider is my cultural heritage (I know my place in society). Besides, vintage port is too sticky, and clings to the bottom of the elements...although it does help them to stay on hills. I’ve been racking my brain (which didn’t take long!) to think of another word that Phil Barker could have used instead of “extra”:- Additional, more, further, bonus, supplementary, accompanying...but they all imply having some plough in the first place. The best I can come up with is “other plough”. Perhaps it’s better to do as Primuspilus suggested, and leave out the word “extra” altogether. Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018
That's unless Phil, for whatever reason, did not want BUA and Plough on the same battlefield. To quote a sage DBA player "I didn't write the rules"  Jim |
|
