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Post by underforeignplanets on Mar 16, 2024 7:13:15 GMT
I'm sure historical anecdotes be found for some if not all possibilities. 4Ps for example, could certainly see use in some pre-Columbian armies such as Tupi with large and deep throngs of flighty nude skirmishers. Even 6Ax for Melanesian armies with big hordes of fellows lobbing spears at one another, but perhaps that is 4Ps again. Even Conquest Era Mongols could have 4LH to give them some extra punch. While 14Hd is just cool, do you dare to imagine the truly cursed possibility of 2Art, 2HCh or 2El?
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 16, 2024 11:50:53 GMT
I'm sure historical anecdotes be found for some if not all possibilities. 4Ps for example, could certainly see use in some pre-Columbian armies such as Tupi with large and deep throngs of flighty nude skirmishers. Even 6Ax for Melanesian armies with big hordes of fellows lobbing spears at one another, but perhaps that is 4Ps again. Even Conquest Era Mongols could have 4LH to give them some extra punch. While 14Hd is just cool, do you dare to imagine the truly cursed possibility of 2Art, 2HCh or 2El? I'd say feel free to build them if you're convinced that they are historically right (or simply if you like them that way). But remember, a double element lost counts as two elements lost.  |
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Post by kaiphranos on Mar 16, 2024 16:46:46 GMT
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pteros
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Post by pteros on Mar 16, 2024 23:22:28 GMT
I was saving this for April 1, but let’s look at every type in DBA that can’t be doubled and see if we can find a historical antecedent. 8Bd - lots of complaints we can’t properly simulate the Polybian Acies Triplex, this should do it. 8Pk - everyone suggests it for Alexandrian Macedonian or Swiss pikes to simulate their superiority, but how about we follow the model of 8Bw and say this represents late Medieval pike armies that had ranks of halberds or zweihanders in front of the pike column? 6Pk - something like DBMM’s Pk(X), early pike armies with a row of pavises that were strong defensively but weak offensively. 6Bw - a Horde with distant shooting. 6Wb - I don’t know, I’ve definitely seen this endorsed. Not sure what army it would fit. 8Wb - now you’re being silly 4LH - Large bodies of horse archers using the Parthian shot technique. 4Ps - Large bodies of skirmishing tribal warriors that avoid melee and thus aren’t Horde. 8Kn - I’ve committed too much time to this silly post and can’t leave this blank. 10Hd - Football hooligans 14Hd - the crowd in front of you when you’re trying to get on a subway train 2El - m.youtube.com/watch?v=QZN_yzhUdu42Art - maybe a catapult that launches smaller catapults. The T’ang Chinese used it in one battle in 961 AD but rejected the idea as too silly 2 Wwg - a wagon laager? I guess? 2Lit/2CWg/2CP - I cannot believe you wasted your time reading this entire post. |
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Post by Spitzicles on Mar 17, 2024 1:09:43 GMT
10Hd - Football hooligans 14Hd - the crowd in front of you when you’re trying to get on a subway train LOL!!  |
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 17, 2024 11:18:50 GMT
I was saving this for April 1, but let’s look at every type in DBA that can’t be doubled and see if we can find a historical antecedent. ... 8Kn - I’ve committed too much time to this silly post and can’t leave this blank. ... - I cannot believe you wasted your time reading this entire post. Hi pteros, concerning knights I suggest to use odd numbers of them (e.g. 7, 9, 11, 13 etc.) So you can arrange them beautifully in formation as an attacking wedge... Cheers |
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Post by underforeignplanets on Mar 17, 2024 18:41:21 GMT
I've just ordered a Mound Builder Army, I've been inspired and have added in an spuriously historical optional element of 3 and/or 6Ax as a mob of Chunkey playing, spear-throwing warriors. I was saving this for April 1, but let’s look at every type in DBA that can’t be doubled and see if we can find a historical antecedent Apologies for stepping in on your April Fools post. It's very good! Made me think of 14Hd being used for Byzantine chariot race rioters. |
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pteros
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Post by pteros on Mar 17, 2024 21:46:29 GMT
I've just ordered a Mound Builder Army, I've been inspired and have added in an spuriously historical optional element of 3 and/or 6Ax as a mob of Chunkey playing, spear-throwing warriors. I was saving this for April 1, but let’s look at every type in DBA that can’t be doubled and see if we can find a historical antecedent Apologies for stepping in on your April Fools post. It's very good! Made me think of 14Hd being used for Byzantine chariot race rioters. Apologies are due from me for treating a serious suggestion frivolously. My post was semi-serious. 8Bd, 8Pk, 4LH, and 6Wb have all been suggested as ways to address perceived weaknesses of certain armies against historical opponents. I think a better idea would be to get rid of double elements entirely and use a simple point system and special rules to represent historical formations, but that might add some un-DBA level of complication. I’m actually thinking about getting some Zulus to play DBA with and have 6Bd represent unmarried regiments (with married regiments as 3Bd). If that wound up being too overpowered, I’d just have the 6-element bases count as 6Wb instead. That’s less that there’s a need for a 6Wb unit and more a convenience for friendly games. Your double-based native armies might work well in a similar context, or even playing as, say, 3Ax but looking better on the board. I was saving this for April 1, but let’s look at every type in DBA that can’t be doubled and see if we can find a historical antecedent. ... 8Kn - I’ve committed too much time to this silly post and can’t leave this blank. ... - I cannot believe you wasted your time reading this entire post. Hi pteros, concerning knights I suggest to use odd numbers of them (e.g. 7, 9, 11, 13 etc.) So you can arrange them beautifully in formation as an attacking wedge... Cheers I have a real fondness for knight wedges but I don’t think most of the historical types treated as 4Kn fought that way, did they? |
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 18, 2024 10:23:28 GMT
I've just ordered a Mound Builder Army, I've been inspired and have added in an spuriously historical optional element of 3 and/or 6Ax as a mob of Chunkey playing, spear-throwing warriors. Apologies for stepping in on your April Fools post. It's very good! Made me think of 14Hd being used for Byzantine chariot race rioters. ... Hi pteros, concerning knights I suggest to use odd numbers of them (e.g. 7, 9, 11, 13 etc.) So you can arrange them beautifully in formation as an attacking wedge... Cheers I have a real fondness for knight wedges but I don’t think most of the historical types treated as 4Kn fought that way, did they? Well, reports about respective tactics are scarce. We know about the Klibanophoroi of Byzantium that groups of about 500 riders fought mostly in a kind of wedge with 20 riders in front rank, 24 in second, 28 in third and so on. But these are reports from the 10th century. Now, how fought the Parthians, Cataphracts and the Roman heavy cavalry? That seems not to be as clear. One thing we know for sure is that sometimes the appearance or deployment alone of these heavy riders was sufficient to scare enemy foot to the bone. I'm no rider, but I think that a wedge formation establishes itself more or less naturally if there's a leader in the middle of the front, giving the order 'Follow me!' or 'Attack!'. Furthermore I think that this formation is rather useful to perform manœuvers, changes of direction etc. Concerning DBA basing I love to use the wedge formation simply because 1. I think it looks splendid. I love to put the most beautiful knight and horse in front. 2. It is useful. Knights are thus better recognisable in the midst of battle. I admit that is more a question of aesthetics than historical accuracy, but, hey, after all, DBA is a game with many more aspects than that... Cheers |
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pteros
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Post by pteros on Mar 18, 2024 16:17:44 GMT
... I have a real fondness for knight wedges but I don’t think most of the historical types treated as 4Kn fought that way, did they? Well, reports about respective tactics are scarce. We know about the Klibanophoroi of Byzantium that groups of about 500 riders fought mostly in a kind of wedge with 20 riders in front rank, 24 in second, 28 in third and so on. But these are reports from the 10th century. Now, how fought the Parthians, Cataphracts and the Roman heavy cavalry? That seems not to be as clear. One thing we know for sure is that sometimes the appearance or deployment alone of these heavy riders was sufficient to scare enemy foot to the bone. I'm no rider, but I think that a wedge formation establishes itself more or less naturally if there's a leader in the middle of the front, giving the order 'Follow me!' or 'Attack!'. Furthermore I think that this formation is rather useful to perform manœuvers, changes of direction etc. Concerning DBA basing I love to use the wedge formation simply because 1. I think it looks splendid. I love to put the most beautiful knight and horse in front. 2. It is useful. Knights are thus better recognisable in the midst of battle. I admit that is more a question of aesthetics than historical accuracy, but, hey, after all, DBA is a game with many more aspects than that... Cheers Aesthetics should always come first! |
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Post by underforeignplanets on Mar 18, 2024 16:32:06 GMT
The only logical next step is the incredibly heretical and broken concept of triple units. They'd function as their base unit but get +1 Vs foot AND mounted, when destroyed they count as three lost units. 12bd would be used to represent the three ranks of hastati, principes and triarii, which when modelled as seperate units are never deployed in DBA as they should be.
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Post by Brian Ború on Mar 18, 2024 21:45:43 GMT
The only logical next step is the incredibly heretical and broken concept of triple units. They'd function as their base unit but get +1 Vs foot AND mounted, when destroyed they count as three lost units. 12bd would be used to represent the three ranks of hastati, principes and triarii, which when modelled as seperate units are never deployed in DBA as they should be. Some related thoughts are here. |
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