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Post by stevie on Jul 16, 2021 9:27:23 GMT
testing too!  the only "problem" we found is when an army have some "2 pips" units (Hordes, Elephants...) and the opposite army, none. It, maybe, be harder for this player to move these units. For now i didn't found the way to control that... (apart to move these troops in priority at turn 1, or to choose armies that have the same number of dumb units! but...) My mates and I are finding the same “problem” as Bluestone28. The solution we have come up with is for the non-bounding player to say “sorry, you don't have enough PIP’s to do that”. Yes, this does reveal that there is only 1 PIP left to spend, but at least this last remaining PIP isn’t wasted…and the bounding player is still being penalised by not knowing in advance when they can move their El, WWg, Art, or Hd. |
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Post by bluestone28 on Jul 16, 2021 15:56:32 GMT
yes we think to do that too... so the player has the possibility to play another unit for the last pip left... i think it's ok.
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Post by Haardrada on Jul 16, 2021 16:46:25 GMT
testing too! the only "problem" we found is when an army have some "2 pips" units (Hordes, Elephants...) and the opposite army, none. It, maybe, be harder for this player to move these units. For now i didn't found the way to control that... (apart to move these troops in priority at turn 1, or to choose armies that have the same number of dumb units! but...) My mates and I are finding the same “problem” as Bluestone28. The solution we have come up with is for the non-bounding player to say “sorry, you don't have enough PIP’s to do that”. Yes, this does reveal that there is only 1 PIP left to spend, but at least this last remaining PIP isn’t wasted…and the bounding player is still being penalised by not knowing in advance when they can move their El, WWg, Art, or Hd. I know it's a bit harsh,but shouldn't the bounded player finish his bound there and then? He/She selected to move an element or group that would cost 2 pips to move and can't.If the player cannot move due to lack of pips then so be it....it's as if the General has sent the order and either it is lost,misinterpreted or takes too long to be digested to be applied.It is exactly what would happen any other time in their bound if they didn't have enough pips? Generals selecting an army with elements that cost 2 pips to move know they are opting for a more difficult troop type to control and really must bear the consequences if they can't move the selected element....surely that would be more fun? |
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Post by nangwaya on Jul 16, 2021 17:48:38 GMT
I know it's a bit harsh,but shouldn't the bounded player finish his bound there and then? He/She selected to move an element or group that would cost 2 pips to move and can't.If the player cannot move due to lack of pips then so be it....it's as if the General has sent the order and either it is lost,misinterpreted or takes too long to be digested to be applied.It is exactly what would happen any other time in their bound if they didn't have enough pips? Generals selecting an army with elements that cost 2 pips to move know they are opting for a more difficult troop type to control and really must bear the consequences if they can't move the selected element....surely that would be more fun? Here here! As they say, "If you live by the Horde..." |
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Post by timurilank on Jul 16, 2021 17:55:22 GMT
I know it's a bit harsh,but shouldn't the bounded player finish his bound there and then? He/She selected to move an element or group that would cost 2 pips to move and can't.If the player cannot move due to lack of pips then so be it....it's as if the General has sent the order and either it is lost,misinterpreted or takes too long to be digested to be applied.It is exactly what would happen any other time in their bound if they didn't have enough pips? Generals selecting an army with elements that cost 2 pips to move know they are opting for a more difficult troop type to control and really must bear the consequences if they can't move the selected element....surely that would be more fun?
Excellent point made regarding difficult troop types and I would agree with your observation. Nonetheless, a good general should be aware of his army’s limitations and what can be readily achieved. My own experience with horde, they might move at best two bounds during a game and are vulnerable against enemy cavalry but can occupy enemy foot for longer periods. |
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Post by Les1964 on Jul 16, 2021 18:27:09 GMT
testing too! the only "problem" we found is when an army have some "2 pips" units (Hordes, Elephants...) and the opposite army, none. The idea is both armies have element/s , which require an extra PIP to move . |
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Post by Haardrada on Jul 16, 2021 18:49:21 GMT
I know it's a bit harsh,but shouldn't the bounded player finish his bound there and then? He/She selected to move an element or group that would cost 2 pips to move and can't.If the player cannot move due to lack of pips then so be it....it's as if the General has sent the order and either it is lost,misinterpreted or takes too long to be digested to be applied.It is exactly what would happen any other time in their bound if they didn't have enough pips? Generals selecting an army with elements that cost 2 pips to move know they are opting for a more difficult troop type to control and really must bear the consequences if they can't move the selected element....surely that would be more fun?
Excellent point made regarding difficult troop types and I would agree with your observation. Nonetheless, a good general should be aware of his army’s limitations and what can be readily achieved. My own experience with horde, they might move at best two bounds during a game and are vulnerable against enemy cavalry but can occupy enemy foot for longer periods. Was it Napoleon who said ...if you achieve half what you want in twice the time you are doing well!lol If you look at the troop types that require 2 pips for a moment and realise that they need significant attention to manouvere as required and things may take longer than usual to achieve and did on occasion fail disaterously.😁 These are optional rules so this can all be left to how players want to play it.😊 |
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Post by stevie on Jul 16, 2021 20:11:11 GMT
There is an alternative solution.
When a player wants to move a cumbersome element or group requiring 2 PIP’s,
they announce not one but two moves. For example:-
“I want to move this Elephant/group to here, costing 2 PIP’s,
and also this element/group to there, costing another 1 PIP”.
If the non-bounding player says “ok, go ahead”, it means there are 3 or more PIP’S available.
If the non-bounding player says “only the 2 PIP move takes place”, it means there were only 2 PIP’S available.
If the non-bounding player says “only the 1 PIP move takes place”, it means there was only 1 PIP available.
This way no PIP’s are lost, but the bounding player can’t predict in advance just how many PIP’s are left to use.
However…it is only fair to say that some of my mates think this is too complicated (bloody philistines).
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Post by Haardrada on Jul 16, 2021 20:16:30 GMT
There is an alternative solution. When a player wants to to move a cumbersome element or group requiring 2 PIP’s, they announce not one but two moves. For example:- “I want to move this Elephant/group to here, costing 2 PIP’s, and this element/group to there, costing another 1 PIP”. If the non-bounding player says “ok, go ahead”, it means there are 3 or more PIP’S available. If the non-bounding player says “only the 2 PIP move takes place”, it means there were only 2 PIP’S available. If the non-bounding player says “only the 1 PIP move takes place”, it means there was only 1 PIP available. This way no PIP’s are lost, but the bounding player can’t predict in advance just how many PIP’s are left to use. However…it is only fair to say that some of my mates think this is too complicated (bloody philistines). Not trying to make things more complicated(honest😁)... But what if the bound player on sussing he only has two pips wants to move two element/groups that only cost one pip instead? |
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Post by stevie on Jul 16, 2021 20:38:45 GMT
But what if the bound player on sussing he only has two pips wants to move two element/groups that only cost one pip instead? Too bad...he has already announced he wanted to make a 2 PIP move (and the order has been dispatched). (Although I admit, just being told "there are not enough PIP's for a 2 PIP move, so think again" is far simpler,
and avoids 'wasted PIP's'. ) |
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Post by stevie on Jul 17, 2021 11:29:17 GMT
Here are some other observations that Tony and others might want to consider. Our playtesting has shown that the ‘Blind General Hidden PIP’s’ system works best by simply letting the non-bounding opponent roll for the bounding player’s PIP’s, as this avoids the unnecessary fumbling around trying to move the hidden dice across the table (dice cups are mandatory…but try to use felt lined ones, as the noise from rattling a dice in a plastic cup can drive non-playing wives nuts!). An alternative, more suitable for solo games (and for those with sensitive hearing!), is to have 6 plastic/cardboard ‘chits’ in a bag, 5 of them green and 1 red, drawn one-at-a-time:- * Players announce the move they wish to make (indicating that an order has been dispatched)… * The first PIP each bound is free, and no 'chit' is drawn. Other subsequent orders requires the drawing of 'chits'... * A green 'chit' gives 1 PIP and more 'chits' may still be drawn (showing the order has been received and acted upon)... * A red 'chit' gives no PIP and no more draws (showing that the order didn't arrive, and must have got lost in the post!)... * To make a 2 PIP move, two ‘chits’ will need to be drawn, one-at-a-time, neither of them being red… * Drawn ‘chits’ only go back in the bag if a red is drawn, or if the player has finished moving… (The defending player rolls an extra 'Weather Dice' before their first bound. A roll of '1' means Plough becomes
Rough, and the defender cannot draw more 'chits' that bound....see fanaticus.boards.net/post/3886/%C2%A0 )
Whichever method is used, this is a wonderful House Rule, and it really makes playing feel as if you are in command issuing orders to an army, instead of merely being in a game where you roll say 3 or 4 PIP’s then decide which elements or groups to move, knowing the amount in advance. I highly recommend this ‘Blind General’ system and thank Tony for bringing it to our attention.  👍 |
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Post by nangwaya on Jul 17, 2021 12:04:43 GMT
That's more or less how I have been playing Stevie. I got a bunch of those little wooden cubes you can get at the dollar/pound store, and painted some up green and red. Only played it once with another person (just before the first pandemic lockdown), and my opponent loved using this system. The other nice thing with the "chit/cube" system, is that you can apply modifiers, for example, a General having a bad day, put an extra red cube in their bag, or a General having a good day, put an extra green one, etc..  |
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Post by bluestone28 on Jul 17, 2021 22:24:44 GMT
An alternative, more suitable for solo games (and for those with sensitive hearing!), is to have 6 plastic/cardboard ‘chits’ in a bag, 5 of them green and 1 red, drawn one-at-a-time:- * Players announce the move they wish to make (indicating that an order has been dispatched)… * The first PIP each bound is free, and no 'chit' is drawn. Other subsequent orders requires the drawing of 'chits'... * A green 'chit' gives 1 PIP and more 'chits' may still be drawn (showing the order has been received and acted upon)... * A red 'chit' gives no PIP and no more draws (showing that the order didn't arrive, and must have got lost in the post!)... * To make a 2 PIP move, two ‘chits’ will need to be drawn, one-at-a-time, neither of them being red… * Drawn ‘chits’ only go back in the bag if a red is drawn, or if the player has finished moving… (The defending player rolls an extra 'Weather Dice' before their first bound. A roll of '1' means Plough becomes
Rough, and the defender cannot draw more 'chits' that bound....see fanaticus.boards.net/post/3886/%C2%A0 )
er... what if the player want to have a 2 pips order at the first move? as he's got at last one pips, and he needs 2, does he still need to drawn 2 chits? and if yes, it let 1 red and 3 green chits in the bag, so if i'm right, no way to get 6 orders? (i mean if the first drawn is ok (2 green chits), he wants to have more orders, so we need to reput 1 green in the bag, no? (only if it's the first order i think) or, as the first pips is free, drawn only one chits for the first order if it's an 2 pips order value. |
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Post by stevie on Jul 17, 2021 23:44:39 GMT
My fault for not being clear Bluestone28. (I’m turning into Phil Barker…I know what I mean, but I don’t always say it clearly!  )In the first bound all moves only cost 1 PIP, even when they are out of command range or out of sight. (And the first road move in any bound costs no PIP’s) After the first bound, a 2 PIP move needs 2 PIP’s (unless using a road move). Well, you’ve already got 1, as the first PIP of each bound is automatic, and doesn’t need a ‘chit’ draw. So don’t draw a red ‘chit’, which gives you no PIP’s, and prevents you from drawing any more ‘chits’. Otherwise you’ll only have the one ‘free’ PIP…which isn’t enough to make a 2 PIP move. In other words, after the first bound, you need 2 PIP’s to make a 2 PIP move…and the first PIP is automatic. But if you use that 'free' PIP to make a 1 PIP move, then you'll need two more green 'chits' to get more 2 PIP's. |
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Post by bluestone28 on Jul 18, 2021 8:45:41 GMT
er yes but you don't answer to my question! sorry, but i found very smart the idea of chits in the bag, so it's why i try it and found a potential problem : let's try to reformulate : after the first bound, if the player want to do a 2 pips order at the begining of his bound, you said you must drawn 2 chits for 2 pips order type, but, let's say it's 2 green chits, so the move is ok, in that case it let only 3 green and 1 red in the bag, so, no way to have the maximum orders. in the normal game you burn 2 pips, so you can have virtually a mximum of 4 more left. as in the begining of the bound the 1 pip is free, so you need only one more to be able to do a 2 pips move. if at the begining of your bound you drawn 2 chits, it's like you burn 3 pips (the free one + 2 more) it's why i said that in that particular case, you must only drawn 1 chits and not 2, after, you right, you drawn 2 chits for a 2 pips type move. |
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