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Post by goldenhord on May 2, 2017 8:36:49 GMT
Hi guys, May be an old story for you but I did not see the point in the Q&A forum. We have a debate in my DBA club about the interpretation of a DBA rule. Could you please reply and clarify it for us ? The situation, we are in good going. The defender a single element (blade) for example The attacker a group of two spears. Nothing around them, no other elements, only plain area The 2 spears have the distance to contact the blade frontally but prefer To contact the blade on the front corner edge and stop their movement. Question : Do the single blade element has to conform immediately to the attacker and turn his Element to contact frontally a spear element ? At the opposite of the previous DBA rules which precised a contact with front corner to front corner, the DBA 3.0 rules do not mention it anymore in the moving into enemy § so is it a valid front edge move and if so the single element has to conformed (from 1 to 180deg) or it is not a valid move and the contact should be in the front (or flank or rear edges) and the single element turns only 90/180 deg or slip front edge to conform to the group attacker ? Attachments:DBA case.docx (38.15 KB)
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Post by primuspilus on May 2, 2017 11:18:42 GMT
You only conform in good going, no?
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Post by goldenhord on May 2, 2017 14:11:25 GMT
I am waiting for a previse and detailed answer if possible. I joined a scheme in a word doc to explain the above text. I suggest in the scheme two options. I would like to know which one is valid according DBA rules and why ? which part of the DBA rules test is pointing the solution. Thank you in advance.
the case is in goog going as the rules precises attacker conforms to defender in bad/rough going.
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2017 15:46:08 GMT
I think I can help. The relevant section of the rules is on page 9 paragraph 9:- “Troops that would contact in real life do so in the game so that moving a front edge into contact with (the) enemy always results in combat.”The Spear group has moved its front edge into contact, so there will be combat. Diagram 10, illegal contacts, does not apply in this case, as that only affects the conforming troops. And page 9 paragraph 10 says that the single element of Blades, being in good going, must conform. So in your rather nice drawing, it is the Blades that conform by turning then sliding so that corners touch. Note that if the Blades were part of a group, then the Spears would have to conform. But they could not do so as you have drawn by ‘pivoting’ on the Blade’s front-left corner. Groups can only move forwards, and the Spear group’s front-right corner would have to move backwards to conform (see page 8 paragraph 10…groups cannot move backwards, although they can sometimes move sideways to line-up or conform). There is one thing that confuses me however. Your drawing contains references to ‘less ½ element’. I am not sure what you mean by this. If both front edges are in mutual contact then conforming troops can slide less than 1 BW, not ½ an element. I hope all this has been some use.  Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
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Post by lkmjbc on May 2, 2017 16:30:40 GMT
The single element conforms to the group in most situations...
Please reference Diagram 12..a, b and c for nice examples.
There is no 1/2 base width limit...
Joe Collins
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Post by goldenhord on May 2, 2017 17:05:38 GMT
less 1 BW slide of course, typo error.
i will wait a bit for other points of view but you both seems agree to make the single element conforms to the group. Thank you for your advices.
The point was: Is front edge corner to front edge corner still considers as a front edge and it seems you say yes so single element is conforming to group in good going.
References to diagram 12b and c are not relevant as their front edges are already in contact and 12a are single element.
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2017 18:21:04 GMT
The point was: Is front edge- corner to front edge- corner still considered as a front-edge.....
That is a difficult question to answer in words, and your drawing does not show such a contact.
All I see in your picture is a Spear group’s front-edge contacting a Blade’s front-corner.
So it’s a good job we have the DBA 3.0 diagrams to fall back on…
If you look at diagram 13d you will see opposing front-corners touching that does count as front-edge contact.
But if you look at diagram 16a you will see opposing front-corners touching that does not count as front-edge contact.
(Warband ‘A’ cannot claim the 1 BW slide, and there is no combat)
Note that if Warband ‘A’ were Artillery, a War Wagon, Command Post, Litter, or a Command Wagon, then even this contact would not be allowed (unless the enemy moved into such a contact: see page 9 paragraph 12).
Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
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Post by medievalthomas on May 2, 2017 18:24:41 GMT
Generally:
Moving Element/Group conforms if able.
Exception: a single Element conforms to a moving Group. Exception to exception: single Element does not conform if it is in Bad Going.
If moving Element/Group cannot conform then non-moving Element/Group must conform or fight as if Overlapped.
Pivoting to conform costs MA but sliding into corner to corner does not. Exception: sliding into corner to corner side/rear contact does cost MA.
TomT
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Post by goldenhord on May 2, 2017 20:40:38 GMT
You are right, the Fig 6A wording is the key answer. As it is written
There is no contact between front corner edge to front corner edge but
there is contact between both front edge and front corner edge enemy.
So in pour case the Sp group hits his front corner with the front corner enemy
of the Bd single element which has to turn to conform to the Sp group.
thank you for your participation and thinking, we could close this topic as you found
the rules wording for it.
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Post by goldenhord on May 2, 2017 20:42:46 GMT
You are right, the Fig 6A wording is the key answer. As it is written
There is no contact between front corner edge to front corner edge but
there is contact between both front edge and front corner edge enemy.
So in our case the Sp group hits his front edge with the front corner enemy
of the Bd single element which has to turn to conform to the Sp group.
thank you for your participation and thinking, we could close this topic as you found
the rules wording for it.
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Post by lkmjbc on May 3, 2017 17:14:36 GMT
Glad to have helped. Sorry that I didn't completely understand your question. I think you have a good answer now. Joe Collins You are right, the Fig 6A wording is the key answer. As it is written There is no contact between front corner edge to front corner edge but there is contact between both front edge and front corner edge enemy. So in our case the Sp group hits his front edge with the front corner enemy of the Bd single element which has to turn to conform to the Sp group. thank you for your participation and thinking, we could close this topic as you found the rules wording for it. |
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