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Post by Cromwell on Mar 6, 2017 8:25:39 GMT
Over the weekend I took a break from my current English Civil War project and tackled another civil war using DBA 3.0. I played two games of York versus Lancaster in the War of the Roses. Both times I played Lancaster. Won one and lost one. It took me a awhile before to get to grips with DBA 3.0. Before the battles I re-read the rules and for the action I used the quick reference sheet courtesy of the Society of Ancients. Both battles were thoroughly enjoyable. I like the new terrain set up, deployment and move rates. In fact I liked and felt comfortable with it all. I will shortly be commencing a WoR campaign using the rules I have detailed on my web page under Campaigns. www.spanglefish.com/solitarywargamer |
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Post by ammianus on Mar 6, 2017 13:49:14 GMT
Concur; it took me a while to come around but now I prefer 3.0 and it's twin brother, D3H2, that I use for HotT games.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Mar 6, 2017 14:07:28 GMT
DBA 3.0 is our favorite version thus far.
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Post by Haardrada on Mar 6, 2017 15:59:46 GMT
Some of the rule changes from 2.2 have had added subtle differences that imho make 3.0 better than 2.2.The change to BW movement,The Solid/Fast classifications and the side support rule are real inovations that are real game-changers in play.
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Post by Obadiah on Mar 6, 2017 19:44:51 GMT
The only concern I have had has been that the movement rates seem very high. It makes everything seem very rushed sometimes. But that's just me being a bit picky.
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Post by primuspilus on Mar 7, 2017 1:25:53 GMT
The only concern I have had has been that the movement rates seem very high. It makes everything seem very rushed sometimes. But that's just me being a bit picky. Technically, nothing stops you using the original movement rates with a bit of tweaking... It actually does work, and you slow things down somewhat. Of course then you need the "close the door" rule back in, though not in Bad or Rough going... And you'll find River, Bad and Rough Going moves painfully slow...and then you have to switch to a diffrent command range... A lot of work for precious little gain imho, though it does still function. Personally, I have not had an issue with move rates, but I know for some this is a sore point. Basically you need to get your troops in the enemy's face at the right moments and in the right spots, to stop him running all over the battlefield and kicking you really hard in the soft, dangly bits. You need the right combination of aggressiveness and patience. |
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Post by lkmjbc on Mar 7, 2017 2:54:21 GMT
The only concern I have had has been that the movement rates seem very high. It makes everything seem very rushed sometimes. But that's just me being a bit picky. A lot of folks experience this when first playing. It will change with experience. Games will still be quicker than under previous versions...But not by a great amount. At Nashcon last year we had several games go to the time limit. This is less than experienced under 2.2... But it still happens. Joe Collins |
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Post by primuspilus on Mar 7, 2017 12:30:17 GMT
Further to Joe's point, there is no requirement to deploy at minimal distance from the enemy, nor is there a requirement to move at full speed. Often, though it is tempting to unleash your line in a furious assault, the X-ray TZ forces you to ask if that is really the best thing to do...
Our battles last a decent time, and we find beginners often move everything at full speed, just because they can! It is against such recklessness that the battle ia over quickly. As it should be. Against a measured, calculating opponent, you don't find it as easy to lock them down. Psiloi really are great as a screen - and a delaying force...
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 7, 2017 18:31:13 GMT
Insightful comments from all (esp re using Ps to slow advance - their true function rather than use as 81mm morters in 2.2).
I had the unfair advantage of having used BW movement in DBMM playtesting and gotten used to it before development of 3.0 started - so it was not a shock to me or my playtest group. Everyone came to feel it was the best feature of DBMM (other features had very mixed reviews).
It was one of the principle reasons I complied D3H2 and designed A Game of Fire and Ice to get this feature adopted across the DBX world. Despite D3H2's great reviews and general acceptance, a band of HOTT holdouts still lobby for the old ways. Trying to get the Good Bad and Ugly folks to convert over - it would be a tremendous boast for HOTT.
Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games
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Post by bob on Mar 7, 2017 18:56:54 GMT
I too find DBA 3 much better and more fun to play than older versions. BW moves could speed up the game, but also allow for more maneuver. Nevertheless, it is more difficult to teach to newcomers. Perhaps a half hour compared to 10 minutes for 1 or 2. I do not think there will be a mass acceptance of D3H2 anymore than there was for DBA 2.2+. Many of us are die hard Phil Barker aficionados and prefer to stick with him, even though he has abandoned us  Of the 10 GBnU legs, 8 do HOTT 2 in 15mm with inch measurement, our group does 25mm HOTT with BW moves, and Tom's does 25mm D3H2. |
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Post by peteduckworth on Mar 8, 2017 10:06:31 GMT
" Despite D3H2's great reviews and general acceptance, a band of HOTT holdouts still lobby for the old ways. Trying to get the Good Bad and Ugly folks to convert over - it would be a tremendous boast for HOTT" Thomas J. Thomas Hi Thomas I have messaged you asking for a copy which I will look forward to trying out. Does it just tweak BW moves or does it tackle issues like low performance of sneakers clerics and the water-lurker anomalies? You mention reviews for D3H2 these have rather passed me by - where can we read these? Did you mistype "boast" rather than "boost" or am I missing something. |
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Post by phippsy on Mar 8, 2017 18:30:10 GMT
Further to Joe's point, there is no requirement to deploy at minimal distance from the enemy, nor is there a requirement to move at full speed. Often, though it is tempting to unleash your line in a furious assault, the X-ray TZ forces you to ask if that is really the best thing to do... Our battles last a decent time, and we find beginners often move everything at full speed, just because they can! It is against such recklessness that the battle ia over quickly. As it should be. Against a measured, calculating opponent, you don't find it as easy to lock them down. Psiloi really are great as a screen - and a delaying force... |
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Post by phippsy on Mar 8, 2017 18:41:14 GMT
I have been playing DBA now for about a year, and have steadily reached this realisation too. Particularly when defending and have to deploy first, there is no harm to deploy 'in researve' to give more space and time to respond to the invaders subsequent deployment.
On Monday I played a game as the basic Hun general (defending!) with 11 LH and 1 Cv, against an invading Late Roman Army. I deployed basically in a set back central block in the steppes of roughly a 6 x 2 deep formation. The Romans deployed relatively traditionally.
Granted I did throw 2 x 6 PIPs in first two rounds, but this allowed me to launch at some Roman Vulnerables ie PS and his own LH, to still grab some favourable gentle hill ridges, and avoid his CV General amd generally re deploy where required.
The other thing the extra space gives is the ability to wheel groups of 4 or 5 element wide groups, to realign them, without exposing flanks by getting too close to enemy.
Good article.
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Post by medievalthomas on Mar 9, 2017 21:36:18 GMT
Pete:
D3H2 is mostly compilation of DBA 3.0 & HOTT 2.0, where the rules differed DBA 3.0 rules were used (so you can use the same rules for both games). All troop types from both games are included (so you can have Lannister Pike etc.) I have added an appendix that just uses the old HOTT types, though. A few tweeks were added for playability: when you convert to BW moves you get some very long ranges, so Mages can now cast 5BW and Dragons that have Fled off the board can return on a "6" (its makes them viable). Reviews come from people emailing me - I don't save them.
So D3H2 is Phil's ideas combined and organized and is a free bonus for DBA 3.0 owners. For a more experimental complete rethinking of DBX mechanics I use A Game of Fire and Ice which has lots of fantasy elements.
The whole time I was working on DBA 3.0, I kept thinking while these changes are great for DBA they will be fantastic for HOTT. More variety of troop types and better balance for knights, shooters (esp v. each other), a better way to do Riders (as Fast Cav), more varied terrian etc. etc. I fully expected that once these features were added to HOTT it would explode in popularity. Very disappointed that HOTT players did not get them - Phil wasn't that interested in fantasy and had issues with a co-author. So I just did it myself...and locally interest in DBX did explode so I know it works.
I was just at a convention with a huge Kings of War tournament (it dwarfed our meagre DBA 3.0 tournament - my Game of Fire and Ice got twice as many players as DBA 3.0), they allowed historical and fantasy armies to compete (all the old 7th edition players had their armies out battling away). I would insist on always having a pure historical tournament (and ran one for DBA 3.0) but having a fantistorical event for both would help increase tournament numbers and interest. D3H2 does this (it does not cater to Sci-Fi armies, if you want to use Space Marines and grav-tanks you'll have to look elsewhere).
Got your message and sent you a copy.
Thomas J. Thomas
Fame and Glory Games
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Post by phippsy on Mar 9, 2017 22:27:03 GMT
Interesting?but for me, I just really appreciate the focus of DBA3.0 and the effort that was put in in evolving it. A great piece of work along with the Army Lists. Peter.
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Of the 10 GBnU legs, 8 do HOTT 2 in 15mm with inch measurement, our group does 25mm HOTT with BW moves, and Tom's does 25mm D3H2. 
