Historical Opponents?

Jan 18, 2018 12:43:23 GMT stevie said:

Nearly done.

But I wonder if people could do me another favour.
Could you have a look through to see if everything coloured is consistent, and I haven’t missed anything.
Remember:-
        Items in blue players can check for themselves by merely cross-referencing through the lists.
        (date mismatches, non-mutual errors, geographical errors, and sub-list clarifications)
        Items in red are historical errors, and have one of Timurilank’s footnotes to explain the correction.
        (these will need checking with the history books and other historical sources)

While that’s going on I can concentrate on adding the finishing touches and tidying-up:-
        Such as filling in the page 1 introduction.
        (causes of the errors, acknowledgements for all those who have helped, and so forth)
        And preparing the three flowcharts for the appendixes.
        (evolution of the early Arab armies, the early Italian enemies of Rome, and the Diadochi Successor armies)

And while you’re at it, is everyone happy with the font size, the general layout, the footnotes, etc.



Timurilank, do you have anything else you want added, either to the appendix or to the footnotes?

Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, including the latest June 2017 FAQ and the Quick Reference Sheets from the Society of Ancients:-
fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes

Stevie,

The pages look fine and the colour coding serves well to define the reasons for the correction-penal-editing. : )

This thread has certainly compiled its share of pages.

Perhaps readers may find it interesting to have a link to the thread in the appendix.

II/81c Armorican Army 429 – 580 AD

The two conflicts listed below are between the Bretons and Merovingian Franks.

Interesting enough, these two events predate the Breton army list leaving the Armorican list (II/81c) as the only option.

In 555 AD, Chram declares independence from his father, Chlothar I. Chram flees Neustria to the Bretons (Armorica) and wages war with their help.
In 578 AD, Chilperic I (Neustria) attacks the Breton ruler Waroch II. The Neustrian army assembled are from Touraine, Anjou, Maine and Bayeux, the last named are Saxon mercenaries {1}.

Source:
Gregory of Tours, History of the Franks, Book IV, 20.
Sir Charles Oman, The Dark Ages, 476 – 918, chapter VII.
Ian Wood, The Merovingian Kingdoms 459 – 751,

I cannot imagine there are many collections with Armorican and Merovingian armies and most likely they can be counted on one hand, but I leave this to you if you wish to add this to the list.

Of interest, the Visigothic incursions and frequent civil wars in Francia did force many peasants to flee to Armorica; the II/81c list may have 4 x 7Hd in place of 4 x Sp.

Action:
Add III/5b Neustria as an enemy of II/81c Armorican Army
Add II/81c Armorican Army as an enemy of III/5b Neustria

{1} It was perhaps on this expedition that the Saxons came up with the idea of 'disguise' (see III/18 Breton Army).

Mar 12, 2018 18:40:34 GMT stevie said:

That’s a good find Timurilank.
I suggest we keep note of any further new entries here in this thread, and when the list of additions becomes large enough a supplement to the “Army List Corrections” could be issued.
I too have found a few things that might need to be added:-

Alexander I of Epirus, the brother of Queen Olympia and uncle of Alexander the Great, after spending many years as a hostage in Macedonia, was made King of the Molossians by Philip II of Macedon in 350 BC. Having accumulated much military knowledge from his patron, he began to retrain and upgrade the ramshackle Epirotes into a modern force along Macedonian lines. In 334 BC he was invited to aid Tarentum and the Greeks of Italy in their wars against the Samnites, Lucanians, Bruttians and Apulians. At first highly successful, he was eventually defeated and killed at the Battle of Pandosia in 331 BC, the very same year that Alexander the Great won his famous victory over Darius and the Persians at Gaugamela.
turningpointsoftheancientworld.com/index.php/2017/12/01/alexander-molossia-part-2/
(see part 1 for the possible composition of the Epirote Army)
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0155%3Abook%3D8%3Achapter%3D24
(Livy’s brief history of Alexander I of Molossia)

The problem is…there is no Epirote army in the army lists for this period!
The first Epirote army is that of II/18f Queen Olympia (317-316 BC), followed by II/27 Pyrrhus (300-272 BC).

The easiest way out of this dilemma is to adjust the II/5g Italiot Army (448-280 BC) to allow the general to be 3Kn and swap two hoplite spearmen with two 4Pk during the 334-331 BC period to represent Alexander I of Epirus.

However, that still leaves a large hole in north-western Greece where the early Epirotes should be.
I assume that these early Epirotes would be much like army I/54 Early Macedonians (but with Cv instead of 3Kn), and the later Epirotes like army II/12 (but with mercenary 4Ax peltasts instead of Hypaspists, no Art, and two of the 4Pk replaced by 3Ax Epriote foot)…at least until Alex the Great’s mum Olympia takes command.



Some potentially useful player aids can be found here, such as the “Quick Reference Sheets” from the Society of Ancients,
and the new “Army List Corrections” file: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Reference_sheets_and_epitomes
And this is the latest January 2018 FAQ: fanaticus-dba.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ_2018

Stevie, an updated list around Christmas would be a fine idea.

The Early Macedon list of I/54 is a much better start for an Epirote Army than the Italiot one. The marriage of Olympia to Phillip II was in 359 BC and although this marks the end date it could serve as the start date for Epirote one.

Another option is to possibly use the Macedonian list to note the differences as is done with II/81c British and Armorican Armies.

II/12 Alexandrian Macedon 359 BC - 319 BC and Epirote 359 BC – 318 BC(?)
1 x general and companions (3Kn) or if Epirote (3Cv), 1 x Thessalian or Epirote (Cv), and so forth

The end date for the Epirote would mark the beginning of the brief rule of Olympia (317 - 316 BC).