|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 19, 2017 21:41:29 GMT
Some Book III errors, with loads more to come:-
III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD) remove III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD)
III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD) remove III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD)
(Although these two are listed as mutual enemies, their dates don’t match)
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD)
(Army III/4b lists II/69b as an enemy, but II/69b doesn’t mention III/4b, and the dates don’t match.
Simply changing II/69b to II/69c is unnecessary as III/4b already has II/69c as a mutual enemy.
This removal is easy. I’m afraid the following Early Byzantine–Sassanid items are more complex......)
III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD) change II/69b to II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD)
II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD) add III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD)
(Armies III/4a and II/69c are not listed as mutual enemies...but they should be.
I think we have already covered this before, but I want to make sure that everything is correct.
Also see the next entry.)
II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD) remove III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD)
(As part of the tidying up of the Early Byzantines–Sassanids, these dates only barely touch.
If III/4a has enemy II/69b changed to II/69c, as noted above, then II/69b will have to lose III/4a as an enemy.
Changing the III/4a enemy from II/69b to II/69c seems more important than keeping the single year of 493 AD)
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove as an Ally the II/67b Other Ostrogoths, etc (200 AD – 493 AD)
(The II/67b ally has the wrong dates to be matched with either the III/4a or the III/4b Early Byzantines)
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 20, 2017 8:21:01 GMT
Some Book III errors, with loads more to come:-
III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD) remove III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD)
III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD) remove III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD)
(Although these two are listed as mutual enemies, their dates don’t match)
Agree.
We can expect errors with the change of list number for the Polish Army. (III/62 to III/63).
Action:
Remove III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD) from III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD).
Remove III/1c Southern Slav Armies (476 AD – 896 AD) from III/63a Polish Armies (960 AD – 1200 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 20, 2017 8:23:03 GMT
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD)
(Army III/4b lists II/69b as an enemy, but II/69b doesn’t mention III/4b, and the dates don’t match.
Simply changing II/69b to II/69c is unnecessary as III/4b already has II/69c as a mutual enemy.
This removal is easy. I’m afraid the following Early Byzantine–Sassanid items are more complex......)
III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD) change II/69b to II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD)
II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD) add III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD)
(Armies III/4a and II/69c are not listed as mutual enemies...but they should be.
I think we have already covered this before, but I want to make sure that everything is correct.
Also see the next entry.)
II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD) remove III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD)
(As part of the tidying up of the Early Byzantines–Sassanid, these dates only barely touch.
If III/4a has enemy II/69b changed to II/69c, as noted above, then II/69b will have to lose III/4a as an enemy.
Changing the III/4a enemy from II/69b to II/69c seems more important than keeping the single year of 493 AD)
Actually Eastern Rome and Sassan did enjoy a long period of peace that ceased with the resumption of hostilities known as the Anastasian War (501 AD).
Therefore, III/4a would be better placed alongside III/4b on the Sassanid ‘c’ sub-list of enemies.
Action:
Remove III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD) from II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD).
Remove II/69b Sassanid Persian Army (225 BC – 493 AD) from III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD).
Change II/69b to II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD) for III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD).
Add III/4a Early Byzantines (493 AD – 544 AD) to II/69c Sassanid Persian Army (494 AD – 651 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 20, 2017 8:54:43 GMT
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove as an Ally the II/67b Other Ostrogoths, etc (200 AD – 493 AD)
(The II/67b ally has the wrong dates to be matched with either the III/4a or the III/4b Early Byzantines)
This is an odd one. The Herul who did fight with Belisarius (III/4a) are listed as integral to the basic army list as well in the 'b' sub-list. Procopius and other sources mention the Herul seeking refuge after the demise of their kingdom (494 AD), either with the Lombard or the Eastern Roman.
Action:
Remove as Ally II/67b (Herul) from III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 21, 2017 11:21:40 GMT
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove as an Ally the II/67b Other Ostrogoths, etc (200 AD – 493 AD)
(The II/67b ally has the wrong dates to be matched with either the III/4a or the III/4b Early Byzantines)
This is an odd one. The Herul who did fight with Belisarius (III/4a) are listed as integral to the basic army list as well in the 'b' sub-list. Procopius and other sources mention the Herul seeking refuge after the demise of their kingdom (494 AD), either with the Lombard or the Eastern Roman.
Action:
Remove as Ally II/67b (Herul) from III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD).
You know, if the Heruls are important allies, then we could always use the III/19c North Welsh ally method of keeping them in play even though they are outside of their end date of 493 AD...
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) change Ally II/67 (Herul) to II/67b (refugee Heruls even after 493 AD)
Just a thought....
Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4420
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 21, 2017 13:23:12 GMT
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) remove as an Ally the II/67b Other Ostrogoths, etc (200 AD – 493 AD)
(The II/67b ally has the wrong dates to be matched with either the III/4a or the III/4b Early Byzantines)
This is an odd one. The Herul who did fight with Belisarius (III/4a) are listed as integral to the basic army list as well in the 'b' sub-list. Procopius and other sources mention the Herul seeking refuge after the demise of their kingdom (494 AD), either with the Lombard or the Eastern Roman.
Action:
Remove as Ally II/67b (Herul) from III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD).
You know, if the Heruls are important allies, then we could always use the III/19c North Welsh ally method of keeping them in play even though they are outside of their end date of 493 AD...
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) change Ally II/67 (Herul) to II/67b (refugee Heruls even after 493 AD)
Just a thought....
Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4420
Procopius acknowledges the diplomatic skills of Narses to being able to recruit large numbers of Heruli (545 AD); 3,000 are recorded present for the Battle of Tiganae (552 AD). These could easily represent three elements using the historical ratios quoted on page 14 of the rule book.
Further in the following year, the Goths are defeated by Narses at Mons Lactarius while ‘a Frankish army under Lothar and Butilin invade Italy and defeated the Byzantines’ Herulian allies’ (I. Hughes).
In this case, the time frame of an alliance should be kept to the III/4b list only as the Herul of the ‘a’ sub-list are present as mercenaries. On a historical note, Narses did not employ the Herul as mounted troops as they were not reliable, but had them dismount as spearmen (Sp). 
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 22, 2017 9:23:06 GMT
Still thinking about the Byzantine Herul allies...
III/4b Early Byzantines (545 AD – 578 AD) change II/67 to II/67b (Heruls, even after 493 AD, whose 3Kn may be deployed as Sp)
Acceptable? Or too much information?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, here are some more Book III errors:-
II/42b Tamil Army (301 AD – 1370 AD) add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD)
(Army III/9b lists II/42b as an enemy, but II/42b doesn’t mention III/9b)
III/36 Nan-chao or Ta-Li Army (728 AD – 1382 AD) add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD)
(Army III/9b lists III/36 as an enemy, but III/36 doesn’t mention III/9b)
III/14c Bulgar Army (804 AD – 1018 AD) add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD)
(Army III/16 lists III/14c as an enemy, but III/14c doesn’t mention III/16)
III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD)
(...one day we will have to sort out the Khawarij army...)
Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4420
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 23, 2017 11:17:27 GMT
More Book III errors:-
III/17 Maurikian Byzantines (575 AD – 650 AD) remove as an Ally the II/69b Sassanid Persians (225 BC – 493 AD) III/17 Maurikian Byzantines (575 AD – 650 AD) change Ally II/69c to read as II/69c (Khusrau II’s rebels in Asia, 591 AD) (In the first case, the dates don’t match. In the second case, just adding a date for when the unusual situation of the Byzantines having Sassanid allies occurs.) III/14a Bulgar Army (558 AD – 674 AD) add III/26b Croatian Army (627 AD – 1089 AD) III/14b Bulgar Army (675 AD – 803 AD) add III/26b Croatian Army (627 AD – 1089 AD) III/14c Bulgar Army (804 AD – 1018 AD) add III/26b Croatian Army (627 AD – 1089 AD) III/26b Croatian Army (627 AD – 1089 AD) add III/14a, III/14b, III/14c Bulgar Armies (558 AD – 1018 AD) (Army III/26b and the three III/14 sub-lists are not listed as mutual enemies...but they should be. The Early Bulgars fought several wars against Croatia in the 10th century. It appears that the splitting of III/26 into separate Serbian and Croatian sub-lists missed out these mutual enemies.) III/30b Magyar Army (896 AD – 1003 AD) change III/52 to III/53 East Frankish Army (888 AD – 1106 AD) (Army III/53 lists III/30b as an enemy, but III/30b lists the III/52 West Franks instead of the III/53 East Franks.) Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4420
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 23, 2017 11:19:18 GMT
The dreaded III/25c Khawarij problem:-
I don’t have much detailed information about these, but from what I can gather they were an ultra Islamist group that did a lot of small terror raids against both Moslems and non-Moslems. However, when it comes to actual armies, battles, and their initial rebellion of 658 AD, they were most prominent in Arabia (684-693 AD), in Iraq (684-698 AD & 744-748 AD), and in Iran (796-873 AD).
So perhaps they should be the mutual enemies of just the peoples of these areas.
Therefore....
III/25b Arab Conquest Army (639 AD – 660 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)?
III/31 Umayyad Army (661 AD – 750 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)?
III/37a Abbasid Arab Army (747 AD – 835 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)?
III/37b Abbasid Arab Army (836 AD – 945 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)?
III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/37a Abbasid Arab Army (747 AD – 835 AD)?
III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/37b Abbasid Arab Army (836 AD – 945 AD)?
II/55b Blemmye or Nobades Army (201 AD – 831 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
II/57 Later Moorish Army (25 AD – 696 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
III/8 Central-Asian City Army (500 AD – 1000 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
III/12 Christian Nubian Army (550 AD – 1500 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
III/27 Rshtuni Armenian Army (639 AD – 717 AD) remove III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD - 873 AD)?
I won’t add these to page 5 just yet in order to give more knowledgeable people time to comment.
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 24, 2017 9:11:09 GMT
II/42b Tamil Army (301 AD – 1370 AD) add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD)
(Army III/9b lists II/42b as an enemy, but II/42b doesn’t mention III/9b)
Agree. The older version did list both Burmese lists so III/9b was missed.
Action:
Add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD) to II/42b Tamil Army (301 AD – 1370 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 24, 2017 9:11:51 GMT
III/36 Nan-chao or Ta-Li Army (728 AD – 1382 AD) add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD)
(Army III/9b lists III/36 as an enemy, but III/36 doesn’t mention III/9b)
Agree.
Action:
Add III/9b Burmese Army (1044 AD – 1526 AD) to III/36 Nan-chao or Ta-Li Army (728 AD – 1382 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 24, 2017 9:12:54 GMT
III/14c Bulgar Army (804 AD – 1018 AD) add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD)
(Army III/16 lists III/14c as an enemy, but III/14c doesn’t mention III/16)
Reviewing the old version III/14b has an end date of 812 AD and includes the Khazar as enemy. The III/14c Bulgar 813 – 1018 AD we find the Khazar are no longer listed. Extending the start date in 3.0 for ‘c’ the Khazar were overlooked as enemy.
Action:
Add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD) to III/14c Bulgar Army (804 AD – 1018 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 24, 2017 9:13:38 GMT
III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD)
(...one day we will have to sort out the Khawarij army...)
The Khawarij were added to the III/25 Arab Conquest for 3.0 but the Khazar Army were overlooked as enemy.
Action:
Add III/16 Khazar Army (568 AD – 1083 AD) to III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD).
|
|
|
|
Post by stevie on Apr 24, 2017 17:50:55 GMT
More Book III errors...with some Book IV errors thrown in as well:-
II/58 Alan Army (50 AD – 1500 AD) change III/54b to III/54a Dynastic Bedouin Armies (890 AD – 1150 AD)
(Ah! Now this begins to make sense.
Army III/54a lists II/58 as an enemy, but II/58 wrongly lists III/54b instead of the correct III/54a.
The III/54b Qaramita were way down south in Bahrain in eastern Arabia...about as far from the Caucasus Mountains as you can get.)
III/35b Feudal Spanish Army (951 AD – 1200 AD) remove IV/4b Feudal French Army (1200 AD – 1330 AD)
IV/4b Feudal French Army (1200 AD – 1330 AD) remove III/35b Feudal Spanish Army (951 AD – 1200 AD)
(The dates of III/35b and IV/4b only just touch. The dates for the already listed mutual enemies III/35c Spanish (1201-1340) and IV/4b French (1200-1330) are a much better match.)
III/37b Abbasid Arab Army (836 AD – 945 AD) remove III/58a Baghdad Buyid Army (946 AD – 975 AD)
III/58a Baghdad Buyid Army (946 AD – 975 AD) remove III/37b Abbasid Arab Army (836 AD – 945 AD)
(Although listed as mutual enemies, the dates of these two do not quite match.)
III/40b Viking Army (850 AD – 1280 AD) change III/73 to III/72 Anglo-Danish Army (1014 AD – 1075 AD)
(Army III/72 lists III/40b, but III/40b lists the III/73 Communal Italians instead of the III/72 Anglo-Danish.
A Viking fleet did raid northern Italy in 860 AD, but this date is too early for the III/73a army of 1029-1150 AD)
III/40c Leidang Army (790 AD – 1070 AD) remove IV/13a Medieval German Army (1106 AD – 1150 AD)
IV/13a Medieval German Army (1106 AD – 1150 AD) remove III/40c Leidang Army (790 AD – 1070 AD)
(Although these two armies are listed as mutual enemies, but their dates don’t match.)
III/41a Proto-Toltec (800 AD – 930 AD) & Proto-Aztec (800 AD – 1325 AD) remove IV/63 Aztecs (1325 AD – 1521 AD)
(Army III/41a lists IV/63 as an enemy, but IV/63 doesn’t mention III/41a, only III/41b, and dates only just touch.
Basically, the III/41a Proto-Aztecs have evolved into the full Aztecs of IV/63)
IV/1a Komnenan Byzantines (1071 AD – 1142 AD) change II/54 to III/54a Dynastic Bedouin Armies (890 AD – 1150 AD)
(Listing II/54 is too vague...it should read II/54a as the II/54b Qaramita were way off in Bahrain in eastern Arabia.)
IV/13e Free Canton Army (1106 AD – 1518 AD) add III/40b Viking Army (850 AD – 1280 AD)
(Army III/40b lists IV/13e as an enemy, but IV/13e doesn’t mention III/40b, only III/40d)
IV/53 Mixtec, Zapotec, or West Mexicans (1280 AD – 1521 AD) add III/41a Proto-Aztecs (800 AD – 1325 AD)
(Army III/41a lists IV/53 as an enemy, but IV/53 doesn’t mention III/41a, only III/41b)
Page 5 has been updated: fanaticus.boards.net/thread/603/historical-opponents?page=5&scrollTo=4420
|
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Apr 25, 2017 6:12:09 GMT
The dreaded III/25c Khawarij problem:-
I don’t have much detailed information about these, but from what I can gather they were an ultra Islamist group that did a lot of small terror raids against both Moslems and non-Moslems. However, when it comes to actual armies, battles, and their initial rebellion of 658 AD, they were most prominent in Arabia (684-693 AD), in Iraq (684-698 AD & 744-748 AD), and in Iran (796-873 AD).
So perhaps they should be the mutual enemies of just the peoples of these areas.
Therefore....
III/25b Arab Conquest Army (639 AD – 660 AD) add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD)
Correct.
Action:
Add III/25c Khawarij Army (658 AD – 873 AD) to III/25b Arab Conquest Army (639 AD – 660 AD).
|
|
