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Post by barritus on Jan 10, 2017 2:47:23 GMT
Hi,
Sometimes I'm sure these boards are created for one (in this case moi) to show one's ignorance - and here is a case in question 
I'm trying to understand what happens when an element recoils through friends. The rules state (pg 9);
Recoilers can pass through friends facing in exactly the same direction to a clear space immediately behind the first element met, but only if either (a) mounted troops recoiling into any friends except Pikes, Hordes or Elephants, (b) Blades recoiling into Blades or Spears, (c) Pikes or Bows recoiling into Blades, or (d) Psiloi recoiling into any friends except Psiloi.
What I'd like to clarify is what is implied by the phrase ' to a clear space immediately behind the first element met'. Does this mean that the recoiling element must already be exactly lined up with the element being recoiled through prior to the recoil being initiated or can they be offset?
Thanks for any help.
B.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Jan 10, 2017 14:34:05 GMT
They can recoil through offset as long as the are facing the same way at the same angle.
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Post by bob on Jan 10, 2017 20:43:13 GMT
As Tony says they can be offset but an element can recoil through only one other element, thus there must be a space behind that element sufficiently large enough to accept the recoiling element.
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Post by barritus on Jan 12, 2017 5:32:31 GMT
Thanks Tony and Bob for your explanations. Just to push the subject a bit further - does this mean an element can recoil through a group. I'm thinking here of the recoil passing through the junction of two elements as in the example where element 'A' is recoiling through the junction of elements 'X' & 'Y' AAAA XXXXYYYY and ends as XXXXYYYY AAAA Also if the above is possible does it matter if elements 'X' & 'Y' have different base depths ? Sorry for the complication - just trying to consider all the possible circumstances  B. |
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Post by BrianNZ on Jan 12, 2017 6:27:59 GMT
Thanks Tony and Bob for your explanations. Just to push the subject a bit further - does this mean an element can recoil through a group. I'm thinking here of the recoil passing through the junction of two elements as in the example where element 'A' is recoiling through the junction of elements 'X' & 'Y' AAAA XXXXYYYY and ends as XXXXYYYY AAAA Also if the above is possible does it matter if elements 'X' & 'Y' have different base depths ? Sorry for the complication - just trying to consider all the possible circumstances B. Also what happens if AAAA is a Mounted element , XXXX is a Psiloi element and YYYY is a Pike element, which the Mounted element cannot interpenetrate ? Does it slide sideways and interpentrate the Psiloi ? |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Jan 12, 2017 12:47:18 GMT
Thanks Tony and Bob for your explanations. Just to push the subject a bit further - does this mean an element can recoil through a group. I'm thinking here of the recoil passing through the junction of two elements as in the example where element 'A' is recoiling through the junction of elements 'X' & 'Y' AAAA XXXXYYYY and ends as XXXXYYYY AAAA Also if the above is possible does it matter if elements 'X' & 'Y' have different base depths ? Sorry for the complication - just trying to consider all the possible circumstances B. It should not matter if they have different base depths, as long as AAAA is a type that is allowed recoil through XXXX and YYYY. Keep in mind that there must be sufficient space behind BOTH units in order to recoil through. |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Jan 12, 2017 12:48:32 GMT
Thanks Tony and Bob for your explanations. Just to push the subject a bit further - does this mean an element can recoil through a group. I'm thinking here of the recoil passing through the junction of two elements as in the example where element 'A' is recoiling through the junction of elements 'X' & 'Y' AAAA XXXXYYYY and ends as XXXXYYYY AAAA Also if the above is possible does it matter if elements 'X' & 'Y' have different base depths ? Sorry for the complication - just trying to consider all the possible circumstances B. Also what happens if AAAA is a Mounted element , XXXX is a Psiloi element and YYYY is a Pike element, which the Mounted element cannot interpenetrate ? Does it slide sideways and interpentrate the Psiloi ? No, it would not slide sideways. It would have to be able to recoil through BOTH types of units of not be able to. |
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Post by bob on Jan 12, 2017 20:29:01 GMT
In certain cases, depending on the types of elements, the recoiler could push back both elements to its rear. Even if it could interpenetrate one, it could still push it back with the other element as well.
There is a very important change in 3.0 regarding recoiling and pushing back. In previous editions if an element could not recoil through multiple elements behind it, it could push them all back.
Now the rule says, "Pushed back elements cannot interpenetrate or push back others." Thus, only one element behind an element forced to recoil can be pushed back. And element can recoil into a friend, and push it back. But it cannot push back 2.
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Post by phippsy on Mar 12, 2017 11:31:14 GMT
Just a quick development on this theme. Had a situation today where a blade element had a friendly Ps element lined up and in contact, but only a small part of the elements were touching. The blade unit was forced to recoil in combat. We assumed that the Ps was pushed back by the result. Can that be confirmed as correct? Thanks peter
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Post by martin on Mar 12, 2017 16:34:21 GMT
Yes, Ps is pushed back. Other way around, and the Ps can pass back through the blade.
M
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Post by phippsy on Mar 12, 2017 18:37:17 GMT
OK - thanks for confirming Martin
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