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Post by paulhannah on Dec 1, 2016 15:16:15 GMT
Last night was Jumbo Night for our local DBA clan. We saw a few things that make DBA-3 raucously entertaining, e.g. elephants' fleeing from one another and crashing into things. Great fun. But this situation came up and we weren't sure how it plays in V3. I re-staged the predicament in this photo below, with only the key players involved. ( I/49d Early Vietnamese vs. II/79b Chinese Southern Dynasty.)  A Southern Dynasty 4Bd element (in the red outfits) is in CC with the Vietnamese Jumbo General. Unwittingly, an element of the Vietnamese 4Bd Chinese "advisors" found itself in contact with Ellie's rear. (Never a good place to be in any version of DBA.) The outcome of the melee was for the elephant to Recoil. What happens in V3? Who dies? - Does the Elephant die in place because it is unable to recoil?
- Does the Elephant recoil, trampling their Chinese handlers underfoot?
- Are both elements destroyed?
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Post by timurilank on Dec 1, 2016 18:48:25 GMT
A Southern Dynasty 4Bd element (in the red outfits) is in CC with the Vietnamese Jumbo General. Unwittingly, an element of the Vietnamese 4Bd Chinese "advisors" found itself in contact with Ellie's rear. (Never a good place to be in any version of DBA.) The outcome of the melee was for the elephant to Recoil. What happens in V3? Who dies? - Does the Elephant die in place because it is unable to recoil?
- Does the Elephant recoil, trampling their Chinese handlers underfoot?
- Are both elements destroyed?
Paul, Recoiling or Being Pushed Back, paragraph 3.
“If the recoiling element is Elephants, all friends or enemy met that are not in a BUA or camp are destroyed.”
Your second point is the valid answer.
If the Elephant general had a flee result fighting an enemy elephant, both would be destroyed; that is the Vietnamese meeting elephant and a fleeing elephant general not able to interpenetrate friends.
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Dec 1, 2016 20:49:15 GMT
I do not have my book with me so I'm ad-libbing from an older source.
"A recoiling element that meets impassable terrain, friends it cannot pass through or push back, or any BUA or camp ends its move there. An element that cannot start its recoil because already in contact with any of these is destroyed."
Only the Elephant dies because it is already in contact with the friendly element, which it cannot penetrate or push back. The way we remember this is that the Elephant doesn't kill the friendly element behind them because they did not have a "running start".
Note that if there was even a smidge of a space between the elephant and the friendly element behind, the friendly element would be destroyed.
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Post by paulisper on Dec 1, 2016 22:55:59 GMT
I would agree with Tony's assessment of the situation here. El can't recoil, therefore dies...
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Post by lkmjbc on Dec 1, 2016 23:24:37 GMT
I would agree with Tony's assessment of the situation here. El can't recoil, therefore dies... Here are the Elephant Recoil answers from the FAQ... Elephant Recoil: Q: Does an elephant that is contacted both to the front and also to the flank or rear by enemy front edges (“flanked” or “reared”), recoil and destroy the elements behind it? A: No. Elephants that receive a recoil result with enemy in front edge contact to both their front and to their flank or rear are destroyed instead of recoiling. This is the same as all other elements. Q: If my Elephants receive a recoil result and aren’t “flanked” or “reared” do they meet and destroy all elements in their recoil path? A: In most cases, yes. Elements in BUA and Camps are exceptions to this. Elements in these terrain features usually aren’t destroyed unless they are other Elephants. Q: Are Elephants that meet Elephants during a recoil move in all cases destroyed? A: Yes. They do not finish their recoil. They also destroy the Elephants met. Q: If my Elephants start their recoil with their rear in contact with a City, Fort, or camp are they destroyed? A: Yes. Q: If my Elephants contact a City, Fort, or camp during a recoil move (the elephant has space to start the recoil), what happens? A: They end their movement. Q: What happens if my recoiling Elephants contact elements in a Hamlet or Edifice? A: Elephants that recoil into Elephants in a Hamlet or Edifice destroy them (and are destroyed) as outlined above. Other elements are usually not destroyed. They are pushed back or block recoil per standard recoil rules. Q: The rules say that Elephants destroy elements “met”. Does this mean elements they just touch? A: No. The Elephant has to actually enter the area occupied by another to destroy it. Touching doesn’t count as “meeting” in this case. Joe Collins
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Post by paulhannah on Dec 2, 2016 1:07:30 GMT
Thanks, all, for your replies. (Dang, and we had a copies of the FAQ's at arm's length. Why didn't we check them then?) But we did play it correctly then. Jumbo can't recoil, so Jumbo destroyed. No "running-start", as Tony suggested, so no harm to the element behind it. Other bits of Pachyderm fun we enjoyed last night: - We did see one instance of "collateral damage" when my Khmer Jumbo General fled from Eric Donaldson's Siamese Ellie. Ouch!
- My Khmer, Jumbo-mounted, heavy-crossbow (Art) shot over his Psiloi to dispatch one of Eric's Jumbos at extreme range (5Bw). I would later lose the game when Eric's enraged Psiloi later hunted down and destroyed my Asian V-2 missile launcher.
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Post by edonaldson on Dec 2, 2016 15:05:00 GMT
- Eric's enraged Psiloi later hunted down and destroyed my Asian V-2 missile launcher.
At the end of the game my enraged Ps were going for Guard Chasseur status as they were trying (before time ran out) to dispatch a second of Paul's Jumbos. I would have had to paint up some sort of Elephant trophy for them had they been successful.
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Post by bob on Dec 4, 2016 19:31:05 GMT
I'm a little confused by what people are thinking is a recoil. Maybe I am miss reading the text above, but if a friendly element is behind an elephant and touching it and the elephant gets a recoil outcome, the element behind is destroyed. It doesn't need to get any running start. If the elephant is 0 mm, one mm, or 10 mm, up to a base width behind, the element behind is destroyed. That is not covered in the FAQ because the rules are clear about it. Note that the rules concerning elements recoiling with friendly or enemy element in contact behind them, or moving to contact, refer to if the "element is not an elephant. "
In any event, why couldn't the elephant push back the friendly element behind it?
Paul, really beautiful figures, thanks for showing these.
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