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Post by sheffmark on Feb 26, 2023 16:41:43 GMT
It was based on Page 3 the definition of Knights 4th and 5th lines HCh with more than 2 animals are listed after the cataphract 4Kn so were deemed to also be 4Kn.
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Post by Baldie on Feb 26, 2023 17:36:50 GMT
More I read it more I agree there is an odd comma before the and which if missing would be clearer.
Is there somewhere else that says HvCh ard classed as 3Kn.
I did not know if they were 3Kn or 4Kn as I never use them hence query originally.
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Post by menacussecundus on Feb 26, 2023 18:27:24 GMT
More I read it more I agree there is an odd comma before the and which if missing would be clearer. Is there somewhere else that says HvCh ard classed as 3Kn. I did not know if they were 3Kn or 4Kn as I never use them hence query originally. I think that is asking the wrong question. HCh are Knights, but why do they have to be either 3Kn or 4 Kn? Nobody asks whether 6Kn are 3Kn or 4Kn (for obvious reasons). So, all Knights pursue a defeated enemy, apart from 4Kn where the rules make a specific exception. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on a tie. If any other Kn v Kn combats end in a tie, nothing happens (3Kn v HCh, 4 Kn v HCh, 3Kn v 6 Kn, 4Kn v 6Kn etc) All Kn are destroyed on a tie against Blades. Isn't that a lot simpler? |
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Post by martin on Feb 26, 2023 18:39:34 GMT
I am sure that such worthies as inhabit this great forum are already aware but learned something the other day. Don't think I have run an army with Hy Chariots before and got to play with some yesterday. I was not sure if they were 3 or 4 knight and turns out they are 4 knight. Well, they DO pursue, and there is no interaction like 3Kn vs 4Kn listed, so they are to all intents and purposes Kn (indeterminate 3 or 4) on a deeper base. They suffer all reactions Kn would, too, including interactions with Lb, Cb, Bd, and terrain effects. |
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Post by Baldie on Feb 26, 2023 23:12:26 GMT
I am sure that such worthies as inhabit this great forum are already aware but learned something the other day. Don't think I have run an army with Hy Chariots before and got to play with some yesterday. I was not sure if they were 3 or 4 knight and turns out they are 4 knight. Well, they DO pursue, and there is no interaction like 3Kn vs 4Kn listed, so they are to all intents and purposes Kn (indeterminate 3 or 4) on a deeper base. They suffer all reactions Kn would, too, including interactions with Lb, Cb, Bd, and terrain effects. That makes sense, ta |
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Post by Spitzicles on Feb 27, 2023 6:05:21 GMT
I opt for 4Kn over 3Kn because I like painting, 4 knights per base look great, have a presence on the tabletop and send a clear message - "don't mess with me".
And yeah, the "no pursuit" rule is a handy benefit too.
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Post by snowcat on Feb 27, 2023 7:30:43 GMT
Yes, cataphracts in checkerboard formation look very nice and formidable!  |
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Post by Cromwell on Feb 27, 2023 8:26:58 GMT
Firstly, it's nice to be back. Apologies for the long absence. I had a date with cancer. Lost a kidney, but all good now.
So...
If you had the choice between taking 3Kn or 4Kn in an army, why would you choose 3Kn? Same PIPs, same movement, same CFs, same QK. Only differences:
1. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on ties (but see next)... 2. 4Kn do not pursue. 3Kn nearly always pursue.
Pursuit often results in overlaps against the pursuer, usually a -1 or -2 combat modifier.
A combat between a line of 3Kn vs a similar line of 4Kn, resulting in a recoiled 4Kn (because of a tie or less than doubled result) will usually put the pursuing 3Kn in an overlapped position next bound, either -1 or 2 depending on the number of overlapping elements and the position of the particular pursuing 3Kn element in the opposing lines. So next bound, that 'winning' 3Kn will likely find itself in trouble.
Why would you choose a 3Kn if you could take a 4Kn instead?
Cheers
Good to see you back, Pray for a swift and full recovery. |
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Post by snowcat on Feb 27, 2023 8:40:54 GMT
Thanks. I'm gradually building back to full strength. All good now. Got a Nth Dyn Chinese army to paint! |
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Post by sheffmark on Mar 2, 2023 12:45:44 GMT
More I read it more I agree there is an odd comma before the and which if missing would be clearer. Is there somewhere else that says HvCh ard classed as 3Kn. I did not know if they were 3Kn or 4Kn as I never use them hence query originally. I think that is asking the wrong question. HCh are Knights, but why do they have to be either 3Kn or 4 Kn? Nobody asks whether 6Kn are 3Kn or 4Kn (for obvious reasons). So, all Knights pursue a defeated enemy, apart from 4Kn where the rules make a specific exception. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on a tie. If any other Kn v Kn combats end in a tie, nothing happens (3Kn v HCh, 4 Kn v HCh, 3Kn v 6 Kn, 4Kn v 6Kn etc) All Kn are destroyed on a tie against Blades. Isn't that a lot simpler? Can't argue with the logic of this as per the rules, but it does mean that 6Kn, (which presumably are a more impactful/heavier hitting version of 3Kn) don't push back 4Kn on a tie either? |
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Post by menacussecundus on Mar 2, 2023 13:13:32 GMT
I think that is asking the wrong question. HCh are Knights, but why do they have to be either 3Kn or 4 Kn? Nobody asks whether 6Kn are 3Kn or 4Kn (for obvious reasons). So, all Knights pursue a defeated enemy, apart from 4Kn where the rules make a specific exception. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on a tie. If any other Kn v Kn combats end in a tie, nothing happens (3Kn v HCh, 4 Kn v HCh, 3Kn v 6 Kn, 4Kn v 6Kn etc) All Kn are destroyed on a tie against Blades. Isn't that a lot simpler? Can't argue with the logic of this as per the rules, but it does mean that 6Kn, (which presumably are a more impactful/heavier hitting version of 3Kn) don't push back 4Kn on a tie either? I would say that they don't. I'd also query the underlying assumption that 6Kn are a heavier hitting version of 3Kn. They are deeper, certainly, but the rear ranks aren't going to be shoving the ones in front of them in some sort of equine scrummage and, possibly, the greater depth meant they had to move more slowly because they needed to maintain their formation. |
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Post by sheffmark on Mar 2, 2023 14:34:51 GMT
Sorry but don't understand, if they're not heavier hitting or more impactful why do they get a +1 in combat v infantry?
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Post by menacussecundus on Mar 2, 2023 15:14:26 GMT
Sorry but don't understand, if they're not heavier hitting or more impactful why do they get a +1 in combat v infantry? I'm guessing here obviously, but it might be because the greater depth gives units an advantage in combat against foot which isn't replicated against mounted opponents. 6Cv also get the +1, as do 6Bd, 8Sp and 8Bw. (I can't remember if there are any 6Bw lurking in the lists.) |
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