|
|
Post by snowcat on Feb 24, 2023 11:56:07 GMT
Firstly, it's nice to be back. Apologies for the long absence. I had a date with cancer. Lost a kidney, but all good now. 
So...
If you had the choice between taking 3Kn or 4Kn in an army, why would you choose 3Kn? Same PIPs, same movement, same CFs, same QK. Only differences:
1. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on ties (but see next)... 2. 4Kn do not pursue. 3Kn nearly always pursue.
Pursuit often results in overlaps against the pursuer, usually a -1 or -2 combat modifier.
A combat between a line of 3Kn vs a similar line of 4Kn, resulting in a recoiled 4Kn (because of a tie or less than doubled result) will usually put the pursuing 3Kn in an overlapped position next bound, either -1 or 2 depending on the number of overlapping elements and the position of the particular pursuing 3Kn element in the opposing lines. So next bound, that 'winning' 3Kn will likely find itself in trouble.
Why would you choose a 3Kn if you could take a 4Kn instead?
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by felixs on Feb 24, 2023 12:12:12 GMT
Firstly, it's nice to be back. Apologies for the long absence. I had a date with cancer. Lost a kidney, but all good now. All the best and good recovery! Cancer is pure evil. |
|
|
|
Post by timurilank on Feb 24, 2023 13:11:34 GMT
Firstly, it's nice to be back. Apologies for the long absence. I had a date with cancer. Lost a kidney, but all good now.
So...
If you had the choice between taking 3Kn or 4Kn in an army, why would you choose 3Kn? Same PIPs, same movement, same CFs, same QK. Only differences:
1. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on ties (but see next)... 2. 4Kn do not pursue. 3Kn nearly always pursue.
Pursuit often results in overlaps against the pursuer, usually a -1 or -2 combat modifier.
A combat between a line of 3Kn vs a similar line of 4Kn, resulting in a recoiled 4Kn (because of a tie or less than doubled result) will usually put the pursuing 3Kn in an overlapped position next bound, either -1 or 2 depending on the number of overlapping elements and the position of the particular pursuing 3Kn element in the opposing lines. So next bound, that 'winning' 3Kn will likely find itself in trouble.
Why would you choose a 3Kn if you could take a 4Kn instead?
Cheers
Much depends on the composition of other units. Could they support an impetuous pursuit by knights? Blade, pike or warband could, spear - not so much. Style of game will determine which knight to use. 3Kn will help gain ground, 4Kn work better to hold it. What particular army are you thinking of collecting? |
|
|
|
Post by Baldie on Feb 24, 2023 14:23:35 GMT
Glad to hear you are on road to recovery.
4Kn makes more sense to me as avoids pursuit to death but boy are those 3Kn easier to fit on a base
|
|
|
|
Post by snowcat on Feb 24, 2023 21:39:51 GMT
Firstly, it's nice to be back. Apologies for the long absence. I had a date with cancer. Lost a kidney, but all good now.
So...
If you had the choice between taking 3Kn or 4Kn in an army, why would you choose 3Kn? Same PIPs, same movement, same CFs, same QK. Only differences:
1. 3Kn recoil 4Kn on ties (but see next)... 2. 4Kn do not pursue. 3Kn nearly always pursue.
Pursuit often results in overlaps against the pursuer, usually a -1 or -2 combat modifier.
A combat between a line of 3Kn vs a similar line of 4Kn, resulting in a recoiled 4Kn (because of a tie or less than doubled result) will usually put the pursuing 3Kn in an overlapped position next bound, either -1 or 2 depending on the number of overlapping elements and the position of the particular pursuing 3Kn element in the opposing lines. So next bound, that 'winning' 3Kn will likely find itself in trouble.
Why would you choose a 3Kn if you could take a 4Kn instead?
Cheers
Much depends on the composition of other units. Could they support an impetuous pursuit by knights? Blade, pike or warband could, spear - not so much. Style of game will determine which knight to use. 3Kn will help gain ground, 4Kn work better to hold it. What particular army are you thinking of collecting? II/79 Northern Dynasty Chinese
So a bunch of Sp, 3Bw and a single 3Bd, with 3 x 3Kn or 4Kn plus 1LH.
Sounds more like a ground holding force then.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by snowcat on Feb 24, 2023 21:42:30 GMT
Glad to hear you are on road to recovery. 4Kn makes more sense to me as avoids pursuit to death but boy are those 3Kn easier to fit on a base Thanks.
I think re basing, I'll either just stick with 3 figures per base, and denote them 'cataphracts' (for 4Kn); or go with 4 figures in checkerboard formation if I decide I'm probably unlikely to use them as 3Kn.
(4Kn does seem the better option for the Northern Dynasty Chinese.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Haardrada on Feb 25, 2023 8:59:22 GMT
First of all 👏👏👏 to beating cancer Snowcat and coming through the ordeal, it mustn't have been easy but you won!🏆
I had the same dilemma when choosing some Asian armies that offer you the choice.At first I opted to build both options as I could not decide which was the most advantageous by the way the rules are laid out.But with most I've opted for the 4Kn as the pursuit rule for 3Kn often gets them into trouble.
Good luck with your choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by snowcat on Feb 25, 2023 11:59:25 GMT
Thanks Haardrada Yes, I had a rather nasty piece of work growing inside me, but with no symptoms. It was something completely unrelated that led to the discovery. Then it was straight in for surgery and goodbye left kidney! The only discomfort I've had is having been sliced open and the post-surgery recovery. A very lucky boy. Re the Chinese armies - yes, most give the option for either. Personally, I think the disadvantages of the 3Kn pursuit outweighs the advantages. 4Kn seems a safer choice, and for the Nth Dyn Chinese a more complimentary combination. Cheers! |
|
|
|
Post by Haardrada on Feb 25, 2023 12:32:38 GMT
Thanks Haardrada Yes, I had a rather nasty piece of work growing inside me, but with no symptoms. It was something completely unrelated that led to the discovery. Then it was straight in for surgery and goodbye left kidney! The only discomfort I've had is having been sliced open and the post-surgery recovery. A very lucky boy. Re the Chinese armies - yes, most give the option for either. Personally, I think the disadvantages of the 3Kn pursuit outweighs the advantages. 4Kn seems a safer choice, and for the Nth Dyn Chinese a more complimentary combination. Cheers! Sadly this is all to a familiar story where cancer is concerned and I am glad that I am hearing of more survivors these days.I have one friend sadly who is terminal and we part each time saying see you next time as a hope we will. Northern Dynasty Chinese is an excellent choice...I'm biased as I have them on my paint list.The Sixteen Kingdoms period has several good armies to choose from and I already have completed the Former Ch'in,Southern Hsuing nu,Juan-Juan and now the Mu-jung Xianbei.Next up should be the Southern Dynasty Chinese with the war carts...This is the one army that I still have both the 3Kn and 4Kn elements...but that is mainly so I can morph the army to field a late II/63 Three Kingdoms & Western Tsin(Chin) army, but they will be representing 3Cav and not 3Kn. Good luck with your project and I look forward to seeing your progress with them.🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by snowcat on Feb 26, 2023 9:40:12 GMT
Haardrada
I wish you and your friend many, many, MANY more catch-ups in the future.
Cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by Baldie on Feb 26, 2023 12:14:15 GMT
I am sure that such worthies as inhabit this great forum are already aware but learned something the other day.
Don't think I have run an army with Hy Chariots before and got to play with some yesterday.
I was not sure if they were 3 or 4 knight and turns out they are 4 knight.
|
|
|
|
Post by menacussecundus on Feb 26, 2023 12:41:52 GMT
I am sure that such worthies as inhabit this great forum are already aware but learned something the other day. Don't think I have run an army with Hy Chariots before and got to play with some yesterday. I was not sure if they were 3 or 4 knight and turns out they are 4 knight. Really? I have always played that they pursue, which would make them the equivalent of 3Kn. |
|
|
|
Post by paulisper on Feb 26, 2023 12:47:51 GMT
Yeh, not sure where our bald friend is getting that one from…?!
P
|
|
|
|
Post by kaiphranos on Feb 26, 2023 15:37:48 GMT
I am sure that such worthies as inhabit this great forum are already aware but learned something the other day. Don't think I have run an army with Hy Chariots before and got to play with some yesterday. I was not sure if they were 3 or 4 knight and turns out they are 4 knight. Really? I have always played that they pursue, which would make them the equivalent of 3Kn. Yeah, pursuit rule says "An element of Knights (other than 4Kn)". Heavy chariots are Knights but they are HCh, not 4Kn - pretty sure I would read that exception as specific to cataphract types. And the equal melee outcome rule also specifically calls out 3Kn and 4Kn... HCh (and I suppose 6Kn) are neither, so presumably this would not apply either. Are there any other instances I'm missing where there are distinctions between the different classes of Knights? |
|
|
|
Post by menacussecundus on Feb 26, 2023 15:52:18 GMT
Yeh, not sure where our bald friend is getting that one from…?! P Umpire's call apparently. |
|
