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Post by louien on Jan 30, 2023 6:28:28 GMT
Hello,
I have run many games now where Solid Blade, or Spear, face against fast (3BW) Warbands or blades. Think of the classic Anglo-Saxon vs Viking match up.
I have found the speed of the fast foot to be a daunting challenge to play against. They can control the board with their strategic speed.
What can slow armies of solid foot do. I am just seeking some tips and tricks.
Thanks
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Post by jim1973 on Jan 30, 2023 6:48:13 GMT
Even in Good Going, blades will beat spears more often. But spears have a fighting chance, particularly against 3Bd, where they win ties (Solid v Fast). The trick is to protect your flanks with either light troops in difficult going (Bd -2) or cavalry (3v3). Having a lower aggression army helps you to influence the terrain.
I think spears can match warband in good going even with the "quick kill" warband has against spear. Again, spear wins ties against 3Wb and overlaps will kill warband pretty quickly. Flanks are more tricky as warband doesn't mind difficult terrain. Use auxiliary if available (3v3). However, warband hate cavalry so use your horsemen to effect.
Hope that helps.
Jim
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Post by stevie on Jan 30, 2023 12:04:58 GMT
This is an interesting conversation, and for what it’s worth here are my little tips. The combat effects are covered by the combat effects chart, and Jim has already mentioned these. I now want to draw attention to the various positioning effects. The best way to protect yourself from being flanked is to face two enemy elements. That way they can’t flank you as they do not start beyond your flank-edge line. It won’t hold forever, as elements will conform…but it will buy precious time. For example: ▄ ▄
▄
Using the above positioning can protect a whole wing, as shown here. The held back ‘echeloned’ element is using it’s TZ to protect a flank, and can’t itself be flanked:- ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄
▄ ▄ ▄ ▄
▄Last of all, try to have unaligned/off-set reserves behind your main battleline, like this:- ▄ ▄ ▄ ▄
▄ ▄ ▄ ▄
▄ ▄
If the enemy destroys a unit and punches a hole, they won’t be able to flank and roll-up your line, as each reserve element is using its X-Ray TZ to protect the two friends in front of it. (I find light skirmishers are good for this)But another important consideration is how far back the echeloned unit should be. For this I often use the following chart, meant for 15mm figures on 40mm bases. It may look complicated, but it’s really quite simple to use.  :-  |
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Post by louien on Jan 30, 2023 15:36:31 GMT
A very good write up Stevie, as always.
one thing I always found strange is the defender cannot truly get in a defensive position. While we choose board side, I often find my flanks still exposed.
It is the "mini" game of terrain placement of DBA. It is also dice dependent.
The Classic Hasting set up of a shield wall on a hill, anchored by swamp on both flanks is hard to achieve in DBA.
Always felt artificial but required for tournament games
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Post by Baldie on Jan 30, 2023 17:53:57 GMT
A very good write up Stevie, as always. one thing I always found strange is the defender cannot truly get in a defensive position. While we choose board side, I often find my flanks still exposed. It is the "mini" game of terrain placement of DBA. It is also dice dependent. The Classic Hasting set up of a shield wall on a hill, anchored by swamp on both flanks is hard to achieve in DBA. Always felt artificial but required for tournament games If going for a specific battle you could set up terrain and starting point of armies though. Hhastings, det up table, define forces, set a time limit for Norman's to win etc |
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Post by stevie on Jan 30, 2023 21:03:40 GMT
As Baldie says…but if defending in a tournament, and you really really want to be up a hill, then place two of them (with their longest sides facing each other), both crossed by a road, which you always place last. The invader must choose one end of the road…so you are guaranteed on getting the other hill.  Likewise, want to simulate Agincourt? Then have a large Edifice BUA (I often use a 'Sacred Grove'), a couple of large woods, and a road. Place the terrain near the table edges, with their longest sides facing each other, and last of all have the road running down the middle of the battlefield avoiding entering the side terrain, creating a sort of open valley with trees to the left and right of it. The invader must chose one end of the road, which passes through the open middle of the field. There you go…your flanks are protected...no matter which end of the road your opponent picks.  |
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Post by sheffmark on Jan 30, 2023 22:04:47 GMT
But of course if you make your position too strong in a tournament then the opponent may just decide to sit there and not attack. With a number of scoring systems penalising low scoring draws, (e.g. players drawing or losing when time is called score the number of enemy elements killed) it then becomes a matter of who's nerve breaks first, if at all!
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Post by jim1973 on Jan 31, 2023 10:30:35 GMT
I don't have any tournament experience. But I do sometimes practice terrain setup to see how my shapes and sizes cope with the vagaries of the dice roll.
Jim
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Post by Haardrada on Jan 31, 2023 12:13:14 GMT
Cavalry,LH and some // type elements (if allowed in the game/tournament)are also a good counter for fast troops and can supplement your own fast troops too.Although they are at a disadvantage against bow type fast elements whilst mounted,the // type elements may not be so bad when dismounted....Dismounting Kn//Bd can be used to counter Bw type elements.
Cavalry and LH are a counter to fast elements as they have greater movement and (on paper) match the combat stats of fast Blade(LH in double elements)and fast Pk don't gain the rear support factor against them....but be aware of flee outcomes vs certain troop types.
Plus Cav and LH can deploy anywhere in your battleline or in reserve.
The obvious disadvantage is bad/rough terrain,but if you are defending your terrain placement can possibly sort that problem or they can support your own fast troops which are not at disadvantage in such terrain.
//elements depend on their type as to how they counter the fast elements...dismounting bw can provide counter shooting or attempt to flank or Sp or other types can block an enemy line depending on the element type.
Even if these elements avoid contact you may achieve part of your aim to slow or negate the speed of fast elements.
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Post by Brian Ború on Jan 31, 2023 20:35:30 GMT
Knights.  O.k., if you don't have any: stretch your line. If you're the attacker you deploy second and you may react to the deployment of your enemy. Counter Wb with Wb, Ax or Cv and flank support. Try to find an answer to any unit/situation of the defender Terrain is the key. Build your development on it. On terrain depends your speed, which is the mother of victory. Use your heavy blades to block good going and cavalry or Ps as reserve to intercept or to outflank units. If you wish, you may even defend your camp in a wide screen. I had some good results with stretched 4Bd on one or both wings, deployed as single elements, but less than 1 BW apart, the outer units turning in on the enemy (U or J shape), while my weak centre stayed a bit back, sometimes even shielded by some terrain. If lighter bd or ax try to close me, they must conform and will sooner or later be pushed back onto their own units, until they can't recoil any more... If you're good at it, you may even use terrain and the slow marching tempo of your troops, to lure your enemy into a trap. Play for PIP starvation...and then: hammer and anvil... |
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