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Post by dpd on Jan 27, 2023 15:36:54 GMT
The rules equate heavy chariots with knights, light chariots with cavalry and light camelry with light horse while heavy camelry is its own unit type.
I'm OK with knights = heavy chariots - that makes sense and is historically accurate.
However, light chariots using "shoot and scoot" tactics match up with light horse, NOT cavalry.
What does match with cavalry is camelry armed with both melee weapons, lances and missile weapons like bows and javelins operating in a tactical manner similar to that of cavalry.
And I would do away with the distinction between light and heavy camelry. The light camelry is designated as dromedary units performing raiding activities. But raiding =! light. And camelry of any kind is never as fast as light horse.
For example, heavily armored knights raided each others fiefdoms throughout the middle ages.
So instead of: KNT = HCH, CAV = LCH, LHO = LCM, plus CAM
I would simplify it as follows: KNT = HCH, CAV = CAM and LHO = LCH.
Thoughts or comments?
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Post by paulisper on Jan 27, 2023 16:37:41 GMT
Is there anything you actually like about the rules…??!! 😉
P
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Post by dpd on Jan 27, 2023 18:52:11 GMT
Hence the forum's name: "Rants and Raves".
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Post by paulisper on Jan 27, 2023 23:19:41 GMT
Hence the forum's name: "Rants and Raves". I’m seeing a lot of the former and not much of the latter 🤣 P |
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Post by jim1973 on Jan 28, 2023 2:11:29 GMT
I like that the name is easy to spell. Have you tried the names of some of David Manley's naval rules?  Jim |
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Post by jim1973 on Jan 28, 2023 2:13:41 GMT
Back on topic. I think most ancient Cav were javelin armed and used shoot and scoot but slower and possibly smaller range than LH. Still fast enough to get away from infantry. Shock cavalry comes later.
Jim
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Post by ratsmitglied on Jan 28, 2023 4:04:28 GMT
As Jim said, Cavalry in DBA represents the lighter, javelin armed, cavalry that was predominately used in shoot and scoot tactics, but not as mobile and with a shorter range than light horse. I think that the correlation between Light Chariots and Cavalry represents this perfectly.
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Post by dpd on Jan 29, 2023 16:15:15 GMT
Not necessarily. Cavalry also represents bow armed Byzantine cataphracts, Egyptian Mamelukes, Turkish spahis, and Mongol keshnigs.
Cavalry combines both missile and melee: "representing the majority of ancient horsemen, primarily armed with javelins, bows or other missile weapons but combining these with sword or lance (Cv), and also light chariots (LCh) with 2 animals and 1-2 crew. They usually started combat with close range shooting, using rapid archery or circulating formations to concentrate a mass of missiles, but charged when that would serve better or to follow up an advantage."
What I disagree with is equating them to light chariots, often made of whicker, which would never be used to charge an enemy or engage in melee combat - that is what heavy (non-scythed) chariots are for.
OTOH, light chariots did "shoot and scoot" like like light horse: "They typically fought by sending a constant stream of small parties to gallop past shooting several times at close range, then return to rest or change ponies while others took their turn. The boldness engendered by their near invulnerability, the point-blank range and their continuous rapid shooting made them as effective against most foot as much larger numbers of foot archers and more so than cavalry in formation and lacking their large numbers of spare mounts."
Camelry also sounds much more like cavalry: "those camel-mounted warriors who charged to close quarters or used mass archery".
IMHO, it is a mistake to equate light chariots to cavalry as they operate much more like like light horse.
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Post by ratsmitglied on Jan 31, 2023 13:45:37 GMT
What you are missing is that combat factors and movement are based on battlefield effectiveness, not combat style.
so even though Light Chariots may not have typically engaged in melee, they are not as mobile as light horse, and are more effective in combat, hence being equated to Cavalry.
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