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Post by Haardrada on Dec 31, 2022 10:54:07 GMT
After all this time playing DBA and re-reading rules I've come up with something I'd like to question.
In Combat outcomes on page 11 "other mounted" and "fast foot" are recoiled on an equal score versus Solid foot....this I completely understand in good going and possibly rough going due to being able to maintain formation.But I would like to question why it also counts in Bad going?The "Solid" close formation would loose any advantage it has over any other formation in such circumstances if not finding it equally as difficult?Any superior drill or mass advantages would be countered by lesser cohesion you would think?
Am I missing something or it just a simplification for rule purposes to count it as such so "Solid" can retain some combat advantage?
I'm not knocking the rules, I'm just wondering if it was considered in the rule draft?
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Dec 31, 2022 12:08:58 GMT
After all this time playing DBA and re-reading rules I've come up with something I'd like to question. In Combat outcomes on page 11 "other mounted" and "fast foot" are recoiled on an equal score versus Solid foot....this I completely understand in good going and possibly rough going due to being able to maintain formation.But I would like to question why it also counts in Bad going?The "Solid" close formation would loose any advantage it has over any other formation in such circumstances if not finding it equally as difficult?Any superior drill or mass advantages would be countered by lesser cohesion you would think? Am I missing something or it just a simplification for rule purposes to count it as such so "Solid" can retain some combat advantage? I'm not knocking the rules, I'm just wondering if it was considered in the rule draft? I suspect it is a simplification. |
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Post by jim1973 on Dec 31, 2022 12:17:11 GMT
Mounted probably hate terrain more so that works (unless Camels in Dunes or Oasis). Fast should probably recoil solid in Bad going. That would make sense. I'm ambivalent about Rough.
But I agree with Tony, simplification.
Jim
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Post by stevie on Dec 31, 2022 12:26:40 GMT
I too agree with Tony…probably just a way of keeping things simple. Of course, it does mean that Blades (CF 5-2) will always have an advantage in bad going on an equal score against fast 3Ax (CF 3)… …the 4Bd will move slower, but at least they won’t pursue. (Yet another item to add to my ever growing list of why I hate the
Auxiliary class in DBA…  ) |
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Post by Haardrada on Dec 31, 2022 12:33:14 GMT
I too agree with Tony…probably just a way of keeping things simple. Of course, it does mean that Blades (CF 5-2) will always have an advantage in bad going on an equal score against fast 3Ax (CF 3)… …the 4Bd will move slower, but at least they won’t pursue. (Yet another item to add to my ever growing list of why I hate the
Auxiliary class in DBA… )Tony has probably nailed it.🙂 Maybe there is a partial fix there Stevie?If it is a simplification then by making it that Solid foot don't recoil other foot in Bad going would give allow Ax,Wb and Ps more of a chance of pinning the Heavy foot in Bad going? |
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Post by paulhannah on Dec 31, 2022 14:00:44 GMT
That result requires that the Solid Blade element must also Pursue, thereby sucking it further (with flanks exposed) into some dank swamp or inhospitable forest, perhaps to its eventual doom!
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Post by menacussecundus on Dec 31, 2022 14:06:19 GMT
That result requires that the Solid Blade element must also Pursue, thereby sucking it further (with flanks exposed) into some dank swamp or inhospitable forest, perhaps to its eventual doom! Elements in bad going do not pursue (unless the bad going is marsh or gully). (Second sentence of the section headed Pursuit on page 12.) |
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Post by diades on Dec 31, 2022 14:34:41 GMT
Maybe there is a partial fix there Stevie?If it is a simplification then by making it that Solid foot don't recoil other foot in Bad going would give allow Ax,Wb and Ps more of a chance of pinning the Heavy foot in Bad going? Indeed…Why do solid warband recoil fast blades in bad going on a draw and not follow up? It seems yet another disadvantage for warband and another bonus for fast blades…. |
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Post by paulhannah on Dec 31, 2022 15:03:59 GMT
Elements in bad going do not pursue (unless the bad going is marsh or gully). (Second sentence of the section headed Pursuit on page 12.) Ah, thanks for correcting me. Doubtless, I've been getting that wrong for years.  |
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Post by menacussecundus on Dec 31, 2022 15:34:34 GMT
Elements in bad going do not pursue (unless the bad going is marsh or gully). (Second sentence of the section headed Pursuit on page 12.) Ah, thanks for correcting me. Doubtless, I've been getting that wrong for years. As have I, especially the exception for marsh or gully, but a very patient opponent took me through the rule clause by clause at a competition last month. |
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Post by pawsbill on Jan 2, 2023 22:20:26 GMT
After all this time playing DBA and re-reading rules I've come up with something I'd like to question. In Combat outcomes on page 11 "other mounted" and "fast foot" are recoiled on an equal score versus Solid foot....this I completely understand in good going and possibly rough going due to being able to maintain formation.But I would like to question why it also counts in Bad going?The "Solid" close formation would loose any advantage it has over any other formation in such circumstances if not finding it equally as difficult?Any superior drill or mass advantages would be countered by lesser cohesion you would think? Solid will tend to be better protected than Fast. They don't tend to take off their armour to go into the difficult going. |
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Post by Brian Ború on Jan 3, 2023 10:25:31 GMT
Maybe there is a partial fix there Stevie?If it is a simplification then by making it that Solid foot don't recoil other foot in Bad going would give allow Ax,Wb and Ps more of a chance of pinning the Heavy foot in Bad going? Indeed…Why do solid warband recoil fast blades in bad going on a draw and not follow up? It seems yet another disadvantage for warband and another bonus for fast blades…. Well, I think it is simply a matter of discipline. And I also think that in this case DBA once again simulates the different behaviour of different troop types very well. Because the outcome 'recoil' does not always mean that the recoiling troops are at a disadvantage. My idea is this: I imagine that recoiling fast blades do so in order to reform, and the warband fails to follow up, due to a lack of organisation... And in the next step it is simply a matter of the abilities of the generals (or of their PIP throws) how they will exploit the new situation. (Once again I admire DBA's ingenious ability to create the chaos of battle out of organisation.) |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on Jan 3, 2023 12:34:48 GMT
Elements in bad going do not pursue (unless the bad going is marsh or gully). (Second sentence of the section headed Pursuit on page 12.) Ah, thanks for correcting me. Doubtless, I've been getting that wrong for years. We got it wrong for a while too until we caught it. I believe this was a change from 2.2 which is why we were getting it wrong. |
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Post by Haardrada on Jan 3, 2023 18:22:21 GMT
After all this time playing DBA and re-reading rules I've come up with something I'd like to question. In Combat outcomes on page 11 "other mounted" and "fast foot" are recoiled on an equal score versus Solid foot....this I completely understand in good going and possibly rough going due to being able to maintain formation.But I would like to question why it also counts in Bad going?The "Solid" close formation would loose any advantage it has over any other formation in such circumstances if not finding it equally as difficult?Any superior drill or mass advantages would be countered by lesser cohesion you would think? Solid will tend to be better protected than Fast. They don't tend to take off their armour to go into the difficult going. If it was just that simple....visualize the confusion and disruption a unit of close order pikemen might find themselves in a dense wood.😂 |
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