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Post by jim1973 on Dec 20, 2022 11:35:19 GMT
Just put up my Illyrians, which were the first 15mm historicals after getting hooked on them with 28mm. I've used them since on a few other armies and have developed my early thoughts: 1. They're good. They're very good. But they are not perfect. There are some issues that you need to keep in mind to avoid disappointment. But I think with a few considerations you can get a lot out of them and get lots on minis painted fast! They do contrast the recesses as advertised. They apply so easily and spread effortlessly. But you need to get used to that flow. Good white or cream undercoat is important. I've used the Citadel bone undercoat as well as Vallejo airbrush primer. 2. Skin - I still use acrylics with washes for skin. The Speedpaint skin is quite good but if you get splashes from other paints it can cause problems, which are hard to hide on skin. Also, ranges for historical skin tones are better with acrylics. I've tried Citadel contrast skin tones but they were more blotchy than Speedpaint. 3. Some are better than others. The browns, reds, oranges and yellows are brilliant. The browns make painting cavalry almost bearable. The blues, greens, purples are a little hit and miss. The white is actually light grey. Better to wash undercoat with Nuln oil then paint between the lines with acrylic white. The black needs two coats to look black. One coat is more dark grey. the mid grey is a good paint. 4. Reactivation is a pain. This is specific for Speedpaint. Wet it, even with another paint, and it will reactivate and mix with your current paint. A few white lines on red Speedpaint will show you the true nature of pink! This does not seem to be a problem with Citadel contrast. It is sometimes good, in that a clean wet brush can erase a small amount of paint. But mostly bad, if you want patterns on the clothes. Tips to deal with reactivation are to plan your painting, starting with the lightest colours as you can overpaint with the darker colour more easily and any slight mixing near the edge ends up as a contrast edge. Also, if planning patterns, you'll need to varnish after the base coat to seal the paint then paint on the patterns. 5. They are fragile early. Once you apply the coat you must let it dry completely or it will tear the paint film. This is worse on flat surfaces (shields, horses rumps, etc). In fact, if you use paint on varnish (as I do) you can wipe some off, particularly the black. This is annoying unless you want grey-haired veterans in your army. I will be trying to use my airbrush to varnish, or possibly try a rattle can. 6. The future is bright. Army painter is working hard on more colours and better formulation. They are even working on Speedpaint metallics ( Sppedpaint metallics). Citadel has also released a whole batch of new contrast paints. I'm particularly interested in what are being called "Contrast flats". These paints flow really well and fast, they don't contrast but give an even flat coat. These will be great for things like cloaks etc. Also thinking of them for later armies (e.g. Napoleonics). Also other companies are getting into the market (e.g. Green Stuff World). So this is great for painters wanting to get armies on the table quickly. So if you are in a painting rut then think of giving them ago. Start with Hardened Leather brown and some horses and see how you go. I'd love to hear how others have used them so far. Cheers Jim |
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Post by paulisper on Dec 20, 2022 14:20:31 GMT
Hi Jim
I share many of your thoughts on SpeedPaints, after experimenting with them over the past few months. My IIlyrians were also done recently with the use of these bad boys.. ;-)
My technique now is:
1) Prime in grey and then drybrush white, so that you're going to get a good solid SpeedPaint effect - in line with your point 1.
2) I then use SpeedPaint for all things leather (ie. belts, shoes, boots, backs of shields) - using a mix of Hardened Leather, Dark Wood and Sand Golem, sometimes mixed together and sometimes using the SpeedPaint Medium to dilute. This is also my approach for horses now too (plus I use the Grim Black and White/Gray for horses too) and this gives a nice variety of shades. For hair, I use these browns, plus Grim Black, and a mix of Sand Golem and Fire Giant Orange (for ginger hair) and Sand Golem and Zealot Yellow (for blond hair). I agree that it takes a little while to work out how much of the paint to apply, to prevent it running off the main areas, and usually less is more...
3) Spears and bows I use a 50/50 combo of Sand Golem and Hardened Leather.
4) Skin - I use a combo of Sand Golem and Crusader Skin (around 50/50 mix). I then layer up using three increasingly lighter Vallejo skin highlights, once I've sealed (see point 5 next).
5) To stop the re-activation issue, I then apply a matt spray varnish to seal these colours. This also seems to prevent your problem in point 5.
6) As well as the skin, I will then highlight horses' and human hair with one or two lighter highlights, but don't do that with any of the other SpeedPaint items above, as I don't feel it's worth the added time and effort and it helps to speed the process up significantly.
7) I agree with point 3 and very rarely use the blues, greens, purples, etc., preferring to go with my older, standard approach on tunics, shields, etc. of Vallejo base colour, followed by the relevant colour wash and then 2-3 highlights.
Overall, I think it's sped up my painting somewhat, especially mounted elements, but not to the detriment of the quality I'm after. You just have to tune them to what you want to get from them - don't expect it to be a one-shot solves all solution!
I'll be interested to see what the new SpeedPaint metallics bring to the table in due course.
Cheers
P.
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Post by bluestone28 on Dec 20, 2022 15:05:02 GMT
totaly agree with all pts above, Thanks guys for these tips! i also use a technic to correct some errors i could make : i have another brush (wet) to attract speedpaint to this brush (it could be a 1 or 2 but with a precise tip), and after cleaning it, adding more water (not too wet!) to this brush and clean the part of your fig, repeat one time and normally all speedpaint color is gone... after, it is a question of patience!  |
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Post by jim1973 on Dec 21, 2022 6:10:22 GMT
Good tips from both of you! I use a sort of reverse zenithal (nadir?) approach to airbrush priming my 28mm with a solid white prime followed by dark grey shot from below to increase the depth of the shadowing but giving the Speed paint more white to work with on the model. Haven't started that for 15mm multi-figure bases. Not sure my painting skills will make it worthwhile. What spray on varnish do you use?
Jim
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Post by martin on Dec 21, 2022 9:03:42 GMT
Good tips from both of you! I use a sort of reverse zenithal (nadir?) approach to airbrush priming my 28mm with a solid white prime followed by dark grey shot from below to increase the depth of the shadowing but giving the Speed paint more white to work with on the model. Haven't started that for 15mm multi-figure bases. Not sure my painting skills will make it worthwhile. What spray on varnish do you use? Jim Matt varnish from Pendraken…best I’ve found. Used to be “at shows only…”, but I think they do send it these days.. |
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Post by paulisper on Dec 21, 2022 9:53:50 GMT
I use Windsor & Newton General Purpose Matt Varnish and always been pleased with the results 👍
P
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Post by Ken Gordon on Dec 21, 2022 10:58:59 GMT
Some really useful stuff here I think I’ll try some zenithal undercoating for my next army. My speed painting thus far has been limited to using army painter bone on spear shafts. I have tried using them on horses but found I got better results with Vallejo inks. Definitely need to practise some more, especially on flesh.
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Post by Ken Gordon on Feb 4, 2023 19:55:33 GMT
Still struggling to get the hang of this approach, but have settled on just using them as a flesh wash over a light flesh base and adding a single highlight without sealing. I also use them to add shading to weapon shafts. As such I’m really using them as a traditional wash so may be not getting the full benefit from them.
Not quite mastered it yet but have just ordered some of the new Vallejo express paints to see how they compare - certainly cheaper than their competitors.
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Ainkatsiss
Evocati
My english is... what it is. If you don't understand me, please ask me to clarify ;-)
Posts: 104
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Post by Ainkatsiss on Feb 4, 2023 20:29:13 GMT
I'm totally new with contrast-like paint but i think my thought could be a good addition here. I've bought some days ago some of the news Vallejo XPress paints. They are really good in my opinion. As i've said, it was my first use of such paints. But i'm really happy with them:
Theyt are really fluid
There pigmentation is really good. Not too much, just enough. They seem to be less colored than the contrast ones, but i like it. I prefer to use a second layer than seeing that i would have needed less.
They are really "homogene" "don't know the word in english) in their opacity and pigmentation, meaning it is really easy to mix them (before painting, wet on dry or wet on wet, all these leading to different and complementary finishes)
They could be easily mixed with normal paints, with washes, inkes, medium (i've tried glaze and metallic, and was really happy with the result with metallic medium and/or metal colors)
They can't be reacivated once dried. But they take their time to completely dry. Better to paint 8-10 models, so the first is dry when i'm coming back to it.
I'll post some pictures of my work with them on the wh'os painting what thread.
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Post by jim1973 on Feb 5, 2023 0:06:08 GMT
Army painter is getting ready to release Speedpaint 2.0. They say that these will dry faster and not reactivate so highlighting will be much easier. But now there ae so many to choose from given Citadel, Army Painter, Vallejo and Green Stuff World are in the market, it has become quite daunting. I will wait for the new Army Painter release and then spend some time on the youtube comparison videos to pick and choose which paints I will buy as each company has its own strengths. But living in Australia it will be mostly Army Painter and Citadel I suspect.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by jim1973 on Feb 5, 2023 0:09:06 GMT
Still struggling to get the hang of this approach, but have settled on just using them as a flesh wash over a light flesh base and adding a single highlight without sealing. I also use them to add shading to weapon shafts. As such I’m really using them as a traditional wash so may be not getting the full benefit from them. Not quite mastered it yet but have just ordered some of the new Vallejo express paints to see how they compare - certainly cheaper than their competitors. If you have a boardgame with minis, try painting them. I started with Zombicide Black Plague and 80 zombies later I had some idea! Jim |
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Post by gregorius on Feb 5, 2023 1:36:37 GMT
Army painter is getting ready to release Speedpaint 2.0. They say that these will dry faster and not reactivate so highlighting will be much easier. But now there ae so many to choose from given Citadel, Army Painter, Vallejo and Green Stuff World are in the market, it has become quite daunting. I will wait for the new Army Painter release and then spend some time on the youtube comparison videos to pick and choose which paints I will buy as each company has its own strengths. But living in Australia it will be mostly Army Painter and Citadel I suspect. Cheers Jim Jim, I picked up a couple of the Green Stuff World (GSW) Dipping Inks at CANCON a couple of weeks ago. Proxy Miniatures appear to carry the complete range of GSW paints and as they come in 60ml dropper bottles, as opposed to the standard 17mm dropper bottles, they are significantly cheaper than the other brands. I'm happy with the 2 flesh type colours that I tried. Cheers, |
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Post by Vic on Feb 22, 2023 9:07:07 GMT
I'm going to try Xpress Color, Vallejo's own contrast-style paints, with my next batch. I've heard really good things about them - allegedly they provide dense colours and a very matte finish, and they dry well so that you can add further layers without unwanted blending. I'll report and provide some pictures once I have some minis to show.
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Post by paulisper on Feb 22, 2023 11:01:25 GMT
I'm going to try Xpress Color, Vallejo's own contrast-style paints, with my next batch. I've heard really good things about them - allegedly they provide dense colours and a very matte finish, and they dry well so that you can add further layers without unwanted blending. I'll report and provide some pictures once I have some minis to show. Bought three last week: Copper Brown; Wasteland Brown and Dwarf Skin. Have to say that I’m not as impressed with these as the SpeedPaints, as I’m not finding the contrast as effective. They do mix well with SpeedPaint, however, so this will give more diversity of Browns for leather, hair and horse coats. I am looking forward to the release of SpeedPaint 2.0, and, in particular their metallics range 😎 P |
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Post by Vic on Feb 22, 2023 12:03:02 GMT
I'm going to try Xpress Color, Vallejo's own contrast-style paints, with my next batch. I've heard really good things about them - allegedly they provide dense colours and a very matte finish, and they dry well so that you can add further layers without unwanted blending. I'll report and provide some pictures once I have some minis to show. Bought three last week: Copper Brown; Wasteland Brown and Dwarf Skin. Have to say that I’m not as impressed with these as the SpeedPaints, as I’m not finding the contrast as effective. They do mix well with SpeedPaint, however, so this will give more diversity of Browns for leather, hair and horse coats. I am looking forward to the release of SpeedPaint 2.0, and, in particular their metallics range 😎 P Oh, hadn't looked at the colours on SpeedPaint 2.0 - I'm definitely going to buy those three metallic colours... |
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