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Post by elliesdad on Oct 15, 2022 14:39:55 GMT
How would one mob be faster than another? How would one mob be inferior to another? Can anyone provide historical examples of either? Two examples, both from IV/64b. Medieval French jacquerie - 5Hd - eager and willing to get to grips (primarily to destroy their enemy, the French nobility). Peasant levy - 7Hd - would “rather not be here” on the battlefield, but have ‘umbly followed their Lords and masters. Ignoring the wargaming aspect for a moment, I suspect these would all effectively be the same group of people. The levies are the peasants “doing as they are told” but, when the peasants had finally decided to revolt, then suddenly they were eager to fight the nobles. Just my two pen’orth. Geoff
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Post by stevie on Oct 15, 2022 17:02:27 GMT
And as others have said, there is a difference between being told “you are now part of the army, like it or not (7Hd)”, and being enthusiastically fanatical but unskilled and poorly equipped (5Hd).
Some examples of the latter 5Hd are:- II/45abc Slave Revolts (“either go back to being an oppressed slave, or we can fight to be free”), and religious fanatics (“we may have no military skill, but God is on our side, so kill the unbelievers!”).
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Post by stevie on Oct 15, 2022 22:18:37 GMT
Thinking about this some more, I wonder if the wording leads us to incorrect assumptions.
A ‘horde’ is really a collection of conscripted individuals who just don’t want to be there. Their main motivation is fear; they simply want to be able to survive and get out of it alive.
But a ‘mob’ should really be called ‘a violent mob’, not a ‘horde’. Their main motivation is hate; a dislike of perceived corruption, or a dislike of something. And far from being forced to attend, they actively volunteer to be present and demonstrate. You only need to look at the TV news reports to see ordinary civilians bravely standing up to tear gas, rubber bullets, and even live rounds being fired into the crowds.
So yes, there are two types of ‘hordes/mobs’… …those that are forced to be there against their will, and those that freely and bravely make a stand.
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Post by jim1973 on Oct 16, 2022 1:51:56 GMT
Another example is in the Post Mongol Samurai army (IV/59b). The Ikko Ikki (5Hd) were rebellious religious fanatics spoiling for a brawl and the Town Militia (7Hd) would rather be farming but will defend their homes resolutely. I don't see all 7Hd as poorly motivated dregs, though some certainly were exactly that! I see the difference as one of historically aggressive troops versus historically defensive. Take the Anglo/Danish Great Fyrd as an example of resolute defenders.
Cheers
Jim
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Post by mark leslie on Oct 16, 2022 3:59:13 GMT
III/4. Early Byzantine - City racing factions Irr Hd(F). GO GREENS! Highly motivated, aggressive, lack of military training and equipment but no doubt armed to some degree.
Google Nika riots and you will discover football hooligans have been around long before football was invented.
IV/75. Timurid - Hostage screen Irr Hd(I). Highly unmotivated, unarmed, unwilling, must be driven towards enemy.
Human shields aren't new either and why they might perform less effectively and be slower to close with enemy than City racing factions is pretty self evident.
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