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Post by dave8365 on Feb 16, 2022 18:01:18 GMT
I'm looking at doing this army, but I really wonder why the list makes them 4Bd. I recognize that the Bd designation is probably due to the captured Roman equipment, but given the lack of training in formation and what one assumes is a more individualistic manner of fighting, would the 4Bd be better represented as 3Bd, 3Wb, or 4Wb?
Or maybe even 6Bd?
Cheers,
Dave
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Post by Baldie on Feb 16, 2022 18:39:35 GMT
Presumably there were some ex Roman soldiers or Auxiliaries mixed in with the slaves, deserters, criminals etc.
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Post by stevie on Feb 16, 2022 20:13:37 GMT
I do very much like the idea of making then 6Bd Dave. đ
Partly to represent their large numbers, but mainly for the
extra +1 combat factor to simulate their sheer desperation.
(They know Rome wonât take rebellious slaves as prisoners)
It would also account for them doing so well against the legions.
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 16, 2022 20:27:09 GMT
I do very much like the idea of making them 6Bd ...He suggests this right as the Dull-Cote is drying on my own, just-finished Spartacus army. Great idea! And arghhh. |
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Post by markbb on Feb 16, 2022 23:54:52 GMT
6Bd!! Perfect!
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Post by martin on Feb 17, 2022 8:47:20 GMT
I do very much like the idea of making then 6Bd Dave. đ Partly to represent their large numbers, but mainly for the extra +1 combat factor to simulate their sheer desperation. (They know Rome wonât take rebellious slaves as prisoners) It would also account for them doing so well against the legions. Maybe this would be a case for a house ruled 6Wb category? |
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Post by stevie on Feb 17, 2022 10:40:16 GMT
I think making them 6Wb would be far too powerful Martin.
A 6Bd (CF 5 +1 for being double based) against an ordinary 4Bd (CF 5):-
With no overlap = 1 chance in 36 of getting a double.
With one overlap = 4 chances in 36 of getting a double.
With two overlaps = 9 chances in 36 of getting a double.
A 6Wb (CF 3 +1 for DB and +1 for rear-support) against 4Bd (CF 5):-
With no overlap = 15 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
With one overlap = 21 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
With two overlaps = 26 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
Even if the 6Wb doesnât get rear-support (since being a double-base is
already a form of support), itâs 6Wb CF 3 +1 against Bd CF 5:-
With no overlap = 10 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
With one overlap = 15 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
With two overlaps = 21 chances in 36 of getting a recoil (Bd destroyed).
The 6Bd option with two overlaps giving 9 chances in 36 of getting a double looks
better than 21 or 26 chances out of 36 of getting a recoil (and the Bd being lost)!
Besides, the 6Bd troop class already exists, although it would mean an Army List change.
A 6Wb means inventing a whole new troop class, in addition to an Army List change.
Note that a 5 x 6Bd, 4 x 5Hd, 1 x 3/4Wb and 2 x Ps army has an unpredictable moraleâŚ
âŚthey could lose 6 or 7 units, half their army, yet still fight on, or they could lose a
mere 2 units (the generalâs 6Bd plus 1 other non-Horde) and then be routed.
Just what youâd expect from an army based on desperation compared to the steady
drilled and disciplined 4 loses it takes to rout a professional Roman army.
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 17, 2022 16:11:28 GMT
And still more reasons to go with Stevie's " 6Bd" classification for the Solid Blade elements in II/45c Spartacus Revolt: - 6Bd elements are "Fast".
- The 6Bd elements can keep up with the 5Hd and 3Wb.
- As such, they will Recoil on ties against Solid Foot in CC or shooting at it.
- Recoils from Distant Shooting will make it harder for Spartacus to keep his battleline together as it advances.
All of which fits the image of a rebel army.
Of course, the best reasons to go with this classification: It looks cool and one gets to paint more figures! (My brand new Spartacus army is now so close to being dropping into the Dunk Tank⢠for an immediate refit.
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Post by stevie on Feb 17, 2022 19:13:24 GMT
Actually Paul, I suggest making 5 extra bases, each with 3 disorderly looking Roman-ish figures. Then youâll have the full choice:- 5 x 4Bd (as per the current army lists), or⌠5 x 3Bd (as Dave suggested in the first post), or⌠5 x 6Bd (âŚwellâŚ7Bd, but whoâs counting) by placing a thin piece of card beneath with double-sided sticky tape on it and a 3Bd element in front and a 4Bd element behind. Thatâll cover all situations, without the need to re-base anything.  |
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Post by paulhannah on Feb 19, 2022 18:59:49 GMT
Thatâll cover all situations, without the need to re-base anything. Entirely too practical, Stevie. No, I'm painting the extra figures I need to rebase them as 6Bd elements. Well, actually, "7Bd" elements. --Looks better, and who's counting, right? Thanks to FIB's inefficient packaging (for DBA), I had plenty of extra figures on hand. The new look, however, won't be ready for Spartacus' debut next weekend. Too many shields to paint, so I'll run the orthodox version. Thanks, Dave and Stevie, for the inspiration. -- I'll do a photo-op this weekend. |
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Post by macbeth on Feb 20, 2022 21:46:05 GMT
I assume that 4Bd classification goes back to DBM(M) where for whatever reasons our lord and master considered the gladiators to be (O) or (I) Bd so had to be 4Bd (like change in Thracian Peltasts and Catlan Almughvars to being 4 to a base after initially transitioning from WRG7th to DBM where all Irr LMI were 3 to a base whilst Regular were 4 to a base). "But they were good - so they have to have more figures"  I concur with the concept of 6Bd - they move fast, hit hard but can still be recoiled by regular legions on a tie (simulating odd circumstances where the morale cracks) Cheers |
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Post by Haardrada on Feb 20, 2022 22:09:51 GMT
I assume that 4Bd classification goes back to DBM(M) where for whatever reasons our lord and master considered the gladiators to be (O) or (I) Bd so had to be 4Bd (like change in Thracian Peltasts and Catlan Almughvars to being 4 to a base after initially transitioning from WRG7th to DBM where all Irr LMI were 3 to a base whilst Regular were 4 to a base). "But they were good - so they have to have more figures" I concur with the concept of 6Bd - they move fast, hit hard but can still be recoiled by regular legions on a tie (simulating odd circumstances where the morale cracks) Cheers I thought the 6Bd would also be more apt for Zanj Bd.đ |
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Post by Spitzicles on Mar 6, 2022 7:07:14 GMT
I thought the 6Bd would also be more apt for Zanj Bd.đ NO !! Not when I have just finished basing the 4 x 4Bd for my Zanj Revolt!! |
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Post by Haardrada on Mar 6, 2022 10:50:33 GMT
I thought the 6Bd would also be more apt for Zanj Bd.đ NO !! Not when I have just finished basing the 4 x 4Bd for my Zanj Revolt!! But you know you want them.đ |
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Post by Les1964 on Mar 6, 2022 11:32:15 GMT
I thought the 6Bd would also be more apt for Zanj Bd.đ NO !! Not when I have just finished basing the 4 x 4Bd for my Zanj Revolt!! Anyone know why they are 3Bd in the Abbasid list ?  |
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