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Post by barritus on May 7, 2021 9:11:41 GMT
Just a quick question to test the water as it were.
How do people feel about the effectiveness of Sp vs Kn's in 3.0 ?
My own thoughts are that in a 1 on 1 its not too bad (favours Kn a bit) but in group situations eg say 4 Sp vs 4 Kn (I play BBDBA a bit so they happen a bit more) this swings to the Sp (due to the recoil on equal results). From my own experiences (ouch!) the Kn's often die a bit too rapidly. Makes Hastings a bit hard to replicate and Kn's were a dominate factor on battlefields in the early feudal period until pikes and longbows came along.....
Any thoughts/observations welcome.
cheers B.
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Post by yorkist on May 7, 2021 13:03:04 GMT
The Anglo-Dane list has the option for the great fyrd to be horde instead of spear. That's not in the AD's favour, but it should produce more historical results for a Hastings refight, especially as the horde will pursue and break up their line. From memory, the Norman charges at Hastings weren't that effective until archery and feigned flight started to break up the shield wall.
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Post by stevie on May 7, 2021 14:19:12 GMT
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Post by barritus on May 9, 2021 8:58:05 GMT
Thanks Stevie - that's actually quite an interesting rule you have there - and certainly likely simulates human behavior in battle better than the current follow up rules. Coincidently I was browsing youtube the other night and watched one on the British vs Americans fight at Lexington Green(?). Whilst watching I recalled reading how difficult it was for the British officers to bring the British Grenadiers back into order after they had launched a bayonet charge on the unfortunate militia. Cheers B.
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Post by stevie on May 9, 2021 16:00:08 GMT
And a similar thing happened to the Scots Greys at Waterloo… …once they charged, they just kept going and couldn’t be rallied. (See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Scots_Greys#Waterloo ) I have since done much playtesting with this idea, and it works quite well. Especially at Carrhae in 53 BC, with the Roman legionaries and cavalry occasionally pursuing the recoiling and fleeing Parthian horse archers, drawing them out of position. And the engagement at Lechaeum in 391 BC, where Iphicrates’ peltasts destroyed a Spartan ‘mora’ of 600 men by drawing them out of position and surrounding them. (See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lechaeum#Battle ) It even works at Magnesia in 190 BC to make Antiochus and his right wing cataphracts pursue the broken legionaries back to their camp (in DBA, 4Kn are not supposed to pursue, even though there are several historical examples of them doing just that). Having random pursuit might seem a bit harsh on weak troops, but Psiloi usually flee from most foot, and Auxiliaries have to beat the Blades combat score in the first place…an Ax has only 3 chances out of 36 of pursuing a Bd or side-supported Sp, and only 2 chances out of 36 of pursuing a Pk column. Having said that, it’s only fair that I mention that my mates don’t like it (Philistines). They say it’s purely luck based, and there is already too much luck in DBA as it is. They much prefer their little metal soldiers to always obey orders, as if they were nothing more than remote radio controlled robots, that always do as they are told and never have independent minds of their own.
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Post by barritus on May 10, 2021 13:24:38 GMT
Yes. I've never liked the fact that 4Kn don't pursue - a misreading of history I think. It would remove an exception in DBA too.
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Post by sheffmark on May 10, 2021 14:34:33 GMT
Or, if you want wargames where troops don't always obey orders then maybe play WRG 6th edition or similar, where you have to roll for morale and then check actions allowed against the different morale class of each unit involved.
Of course a game can take about 3hours to play and I think I've seen more arguments and heated debates over WRG 6th Edition games than any other rule set.
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Post by martin on May 10, 2021 16:27:12 GMT
Or, if you want wargames where troops don't always obey orders then maybe play WRG 6th edition or similar, where you have to roll for morale and then check actions allowed against the different morale class of each unit involved. Of course a game can take about 3hours to play and I think I've seen more arguments and heated debates over WRG 6th Edition games than any other rule set. ....oh no, you haven’t......😊
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Post by menacussecundus on May 10, 2021 16:29:40 GMT
Or, if you want wargames where troops don't always obey orders then maybe play WRG 6th edition or similar, where you have to roll for morale and then check actions allowed against the different morale class of each unit involved. Of course a game can take about 3hours to play and I think I've seen more arguments and heated debates over WRG 6th Edition games than any other rule set. ....oh no, you haven’t......😊 Come come, gentlemen. Put it behind you.
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Post by stevie on May 10, 2021 17:30:24 GMT
You know, WRG 7th Edition took soooooo long to play I don’t ever remember finishing a game! Ah, the rules today are far better than they were in the past… …and no doubt they will be even better in the future… (Unless we start pretending that everything is ‘perfect’ and all development ceases, much like how DBA 1.22 was considered to be ‘perfect’ until DBA 2.0 came along, and then DBA 2.2 was considered to be ‘perfect’ until DBA 3.0 came along…)
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Post by Haardrada on May 10, 2021 19:41:10 GMT
You know, WRG 7th Edition took soooooo long to play I don’t ever remember finishing a game! Ah, the rules today are far better than they were in the past… …and no doubt they will be even better in the future… (Unless we start pretending that everything is ‘perfect’ and all development ceases, much like how DBA 1.22 was considered to be ‘perfect’ until DBA 2.0 came along, and then DBA 2.2 was considered to be ‘perfect’ until DBA 3.0 came along…) My Swiss finished a few. 🪓😁⚒️ We did add a house rule for campaigns that if a unit routed only a General could attempt to rally it by joining the unit(often in route!).
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Post by martin on May 11, 2021 8:33:06 GMT
....oh no, you haven’t......😊 Come come, gentlemen. Put it behind you. ...”BEHIND YOU!!!!”.... And there was me thinking pantomime season had finished (...oh no it hasn’t....oh yes it has....🙈).
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