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Post by richard4th on May 2, 2021 10:51:55 GMT
Hi everyone,
I've become interested in re-creating some Anglo-Norman battles, using a series of old (1993) Wargames Illustrated articles as a guide. One is the 'Battle of the Standard', fought in Northern England (UK) in 1138. The 'standard' in question was, in fact, an old ship's mast on a cart from which banners were hung. The suggestion is that this is a War Wagon (WWg)
The current DBA 3 list for the Anglo-Normans (IV/3) seems to suggest that the 'standard' wagon is a command wagon (CWg).
Does anyone have any ideas about a command wagon works, in game terms? They seem to be classed as 'General', without a close combat value?
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2021 11:56:34 GMT
And hello to you Richard4th.  Command Elements (CP, Lit, CWg):-Troop description Page 4, paragraph 3. Only 1 PIP to move (unlike WWg) Page 8, paragraph 7. Can deploy & move in Bad Going Page 9, paragraph 2. Bd/Pk/Bows can recoil through them Page 9, paragraph 6. Has a single Threat Zone (unlike WWg) Page 9, paragraph 8. Can’t move into contact (like WWg) Page 9, last paragraph. Cannot shoot (unlike WWg) Page 10, paragraph 2. Combat factors (as if solid Bd) Page 10, last paragraph. Gives side-support (being solid Bd) Page 11, paragraph 2. Only destroyed on an equal score Page 11, equal scores (or if doubled by anyone). Never recoils (like WWg) Page 11, if they score less. Can be pushed back (unlike WWg) Page 12, paragraph 4. Does not pursue like Bd Page 12, paragraph 10. Counts as 2 elements if lost Page 12, last paragraphs (1 for the element + 1 for the general). As for tactical use, well, not being able to contact the enemy means they’re no good for attacking... ...but their Threat Zone is just as good as everyone else’s for pinning the enemy. I find that being so hard to kill, they are best used for holding a wing or the end of a battleline. |
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Post by richard4th on May 2, 2021 12:05:10 GMT
Stevie
Thanks...
Had I noticed, as you obviously did, that they come under 'Blades' (thus explaining the lack of an entry for 'Gen' after WWg on p4) I would have been off to a better start I think!!
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Post by hammurabi70 on May 2, 2021 23:56:24 GMT
Hardly a War Wagon, like those used by the Hussites. I should have thought it part of a camp ... or THE camp. A bit difficult if it is supposed to be the general's unit ... but was it?
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Post by stevie on May 3, 2021 9:14:43 GMT
I do tend to agree with you Hammurabi70. It does seem a bit odd that a large heavy wheeled vehicle like a Command Wagon can zip about and be as nimble as a unit of Blades (only costing 1 PIP to move), is practically invulnerable to Artillery or Elephants (unlike WWg), can be deployed and move in Bad Going (while WWg can’t), and can be pushed back by other recoiling troops (while again WWg can’t). Still (and you all know what’s coming next folks...yep)...”We didn’t write the rules”.  |
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Post by Tony Aguilar on May 3, 2021 16:58:03 GMT
And hello to you Richard4th. Command Elements (CP, Lit, CWg):-Troop description Page 4, paragraph 3. Only 1 PIP to move (unlike WWg) Page 8, paragraph 7. Can deploy & move in Bad Going Page 9, paragraph 2. Bd/Pk/Bows can recoil through them Page 9, paragraph 6. Has a single Threat Zone (unlike WWg) Page 9, paragraph 8. Can’t move into contact (like WWg) Page 9, last paragraph. Cannot shoot (unlike WWg) Page 10, paragraph 2. Combat factors (as if solid Bd) Page 10, last paragraph. Gives side-support (being solid Bd) Page 11, paragraph 2. Only destroyed on an equal score Page 11, equal scores (or if doubled by anyone). Never recoils (like WWg) Page 11, if they score less. Can be pushed back (unlike WWg) Page 12, paragraph 4. Does not pursue like Bd Page 12, paragraph 10. Counts as 2 elements if lost Page 12, last paragraphs (1 for the element + 1 for the general). As for tactical use, well, not being able to contact the enemy means they’re no good for attacking... ...but their Threat Zone is just as good as everyone else’s for pinning the enemy. I find that being so hard to kill, they are best used for holding a wing or the end of a battleline. Keep in mind that there is a caveat in regards to being destroyed on a tie. Only by enemy FOOT and only if contacted on two edges by enemy front.
"Solid" foot Destroyed by foot if CP, CWg or Lit & in contact on 2 or more edges by enemy front edges,
otherwise no effect.
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Post by richard4th on May 4, 2021 16:30:55 GMT
Thanks everyone for their information/ opinion on command wagons.
However having done a bit of research on this - or as much as I can on soemthing that took place nearly 1000 years ago - I am beginning to conclude that it might just be a command post and not mobile at all. The only source that mentions it says that, "Some of them soon erected, in the centre of a frame, which they brought, the mast of a ship, to which they gave the name of the Standard . . .which tends to suggest to me it was just a fairly large stationary flagpole.
In any event, as others have intimated, how mobile can you make a flagpole on the back of a cart. I wouldn't fancy shifting it, and certainly not in the middle of a battle!
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