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Post by bob on Apr 28, 2021 4:51:06 GMT
Help with stronghold size. I’ve been trying to explain strongholds to a friend of mine and I realize my math is not very good. Does anyone have a chart showing comparable strong hold sizes in inches, millimeters, paces and Base Width .
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Post by stevie on Apr 28, 2021 8:29:09 GMT
Well Bob, HoTT 2.1 is unusual in that it uses two completely different measuring systems together.
Some things are measured using BW like DBA (i.e. ZOC’s, shooting arcs of fire, recoiling, passable routes
to Strongholds, etc), but other things like movement is determined by the arbitrary concept of ‘paces’...
...which then have to be mentally translated into something more useful such as inches or millimetres.
And then it all depends on the measuring system used.
The old traditional system uses 100 paces = 1 inch/25mm (and replacement Hordes take ages to get into combat).
The new DBA 3.0 system uses 100 paces = 1 BW (but then Aerial troops can zoom about pretty much as they like).
40mm bases on a 24”/600mm table: 100 paces = 1 inch (or alternatively 1 BW of 1½”/40mm)
60mm bases on a 36”/900mm table: 100 paces = 40mm (or alternatively 1 BW of 2½”/60mm)
Nonetheless, here is that Stronghold size-chart that you requested.
“A Stronghold must fit inside an imaginary rectangle of 600p maximum length and width,
and must itself be at least 200p in length and width.”
(I’m assuming that “length and width” are NOT added together, but are treated separately,
otherwise it would have said "length plus width"):-
Base Frontage Using Inches or mm Using Base Widths
40mm (for 15mm figs) Min = 2” or 50mm Min = 2 BW, so 3” or 80mm
40mm (for 15mm figs) Max = 6” or 150mm Max = 6 BW, so 9½” or 240mm
60mm (for 25mm figs) Min = 3” or 80mm Min = 2 BW, so 5” or 120mm
60mm (for 25mm figs) Max = 9½” or 240mm Max = 6 BW, so 14½” or 360mm
(Remembering that a Stronghold must fit inside this imaginary rectangle, but could
still have a curved perimeter to frustrate assaulter's from making group contact)
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Post by bob on Apr 28, 2021 20:44:56 GMT
Thanks for all the good info. One basic question. Do you think 600p length and width means each dimension can be 600 so 600 by 600 is legal. Or does this mean the sum of length and width is 600, so for example 400 x 200 is max?
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Post by stevie on Apr 28, 2021 21:27:58 GMT
I can only repeat what I said earlier Bob.
I assume that “length and width” are NOT added together, but are treated separately,
otherwise it would have said “length plus width”.
We can put this to the test:-
A Stronghold must be at least 200p in length and width.
IF the minimum size were length plus width, players could have a Stronghold
a mere 100p/1 inch/25mm wide and 100p/1 inch/25mm deep...
...which seems a bit small considering that a 15mm figure element is only
1 BW/150p/1½ inches/40mm wide (in other words, the Stronghold would
be smaller than the width of an element).
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Post by martin on Apr 29, 2021 8:24:47 GMT
Thanks for all the good info. One basic question. Do you think 600p length and width means each dimension can be 600 so 600 by 600 is legal. Or does this mean the sum of length and width is 600, so for example 400 x 200 is max? My own interpretation has always been that the maximum footprint in 15mm scale/40mm frontage scale is 6” x 6” and the minimum footprint is 2” x 2” (and I therefore I bought some 60mm squares to make some ‘just bigger than minimum’ strongholds). Caveat with the larger strongholds - they may look pretty, but you can’t fit your army on the board in front of them, cos they encroach on the allowed deployment area too much. My first Hott army was dinosaurs. Their stronghold was an erupting volcano, 5” deep.....however, when placed roughly centrally on the baseline as required it stopped my army from fitting in front. It later became ‘impassable terrain’ instead. |
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Post by stevie on Apr 29, 2021 10:18:49 GMT
Martin is quite right...but remember, it doesn't have to be 600p square. “A Stronghold must fit inside an imaginary rectangle of 600p maximum length and width, and must itself be at least 200p in length and width.” You could have a Stronghold the maximum 600p in length, but the minimum 200p in width. This would fit in the imaginary rectangle...it doesn’t fill it, but it still fits inside it. For my War Of The Worlds Martians, their ‘Stronghold’ is a half-buried cylinder in a crater, 140mm/5½ inches/3½ BW long but only 80mm/3 inches/2 BW deep:-  (What you see are three ‘Fighting Machines’ (magicians), four ‘Tripods’ (blades), and two
‘Harvesters’ (beasts), plus the cylinder in the crater with some red weed, crawling, crawling...)As Arthur C. Clark famously stated:- “A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”. 🛸
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Post by sheffmark on Apr 29, 2021 13:05:48 GMT
Caveat with the larger strongholds - they may look pretty, but you can’t fit your army on the board in front of them, cos they encroach on the allowed deployment area too much. My first Hott army was dinosaurs. Their stronghold was an erupting volcano, 5” deep.....however, when placed roughly centrally on the baseline as required it stopped my army from fitting in front. It later became ‘impassable terrain’ instead. So there you are Martin, the answer is cut your Volcano in half and have half an eruption! |
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Post by martin on Apr 29, 2021 20:58:08 GMT
Caveat with the larger strongholds - they may look pretty, but you can’t fit your army on the board in front of them, cos they encroach on the allowed deployment area too much. My first Hott army was dinosaurs. Their stronghold was an erupting volcano, 5” deep.....however, when placed roughly centrally on the baseline as required it stopped my army from fitting in front. It later became ‘impassable terrain’ instead. So there you are Martin, the answer is cut your Volcano in half and have half an eruption! It was already a cross-sectioned volcano, Mark! (Like a semicircular chunk of mountain). |
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Post by sheffmark on May 1, 2021 9:32:53 GMT
So there you are Martin, the answer is cut your Volcano in half and have half an eruption! It was already a cross-sectioned volcano, Mark! (Like a semicircular chunk of mountain). So the full size would have been 10" deep?!! Wow. How high? (Of course the plasticity of the lava will determine the shape of the cone.) Do you have a photo? Please tell me it didn't have curved edge specifically to frustrate assaulter's from making group contact? |
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Post by stevie on May 1, 2021 9:51:21 GMT
I doubt there are any volcanic mountains with perfectly straight edges...  |
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Post by martin on May 1, 2021 12:05:34 GMT
It did have a curved edge, but not through any clever plan to avoid group contact.....just so it looked right. Only about 4” tall (plus an ash plume of 15 feet, to simulate an aviation-stopping Ejhaflalljokkullle Ash Cloud....to keep Flyers and airboats at bay 😊 )
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Post by sheffmark on May 3, 2021 15:14:00 GMT
It did have a curved edge, but not through any clever plan to avoid group contact.....just so it looked right. Only about 4” tall (plus an ash plume of 15 feet, to simulate an aviation-stopping Ejhaflalljokkullle Ash Cloud....to keep Flyers and airboats at bay 😊 ) I equip my airboats with Rolls Royce engines so they can recover from any meeting with an ash cloud! |
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