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Post by eagle6 on Mar 28, 2021 20:27:58 GMT
What is the advantage or disadvantage of having an 8Bw element versus a 4Bw element? Also does an 8Bw element that is loss, count as one element or two?
Thanks
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Post by stevie on Mar 28, 2021 21:12:41 GMT
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Post by eagle6 on Mar 28, 2021 21:22:12 GMT
Thanks very much for your reply. That was the only thing that I could find.
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Post by paulhannah on Mar 29, 2021 8:20:32 GMT
What is the advantage...of having an 8Bw element versus a 4Bw element? Again, welcome to DBA Ancients. Stevie laid out the rule-differences between 8Bw and 4Bw elements. But here are the real advantages of 8Bw elements: They look cool and you get to paint more figures!
Here are 8Bw elements from my I/44b Neo-Babylonians. (15mm Essex)  But some of the prettiest 8Bw elements I've ever faced are these from Eric Donaldson's III/65 Nikephorian Byzantine army. (15mm Khurasan)  Happy painting! |
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Post by martin on Mar 29, 2021 9:03:36 GMT
Thanks very much for your reply. That was the only thing that I could find. So they’re a little tougher in a stand up fight with other infantry than their 4Bw brethren, but with an inherent risk... |
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Post by sheffmark on Mar 29, 2021 9:08:59 GMT
Again welcome Eagle 6.
As Stevie says, those are the main benefits in the rules, of course if you also have some solid Blades and put them next to your 8Bw they'll get support for that in combat against foot as well, so your 8Bw can be on a +4 against foot in close combat, which should help them survive a bit longer.
Of course in shooting none of that matters, (weird when they have a row of spearmen with shields in front, but there you go) so maybe not a good idea to get into a firefight with 8Bw v 4Bw as your first 8Bw loss counts as two elements.
Just to clarify, the rules say you should have 8 models per base for an 8Bw, rather than the 12 or 10 shown in the pictures, but I can't imagine anyone objecting to those shown, but to clarify, you don't have to provide more than 8 models per base.
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Post by paulhannah on Mar 29, 2021 17:43:20 GMT
Just to clarify, the rules say you should have 8 models per base for an 8Bw... Yes, "sheffmark" is absolutely correct here. (I am counting-challenged.) |
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Post by bob on Apr 3, 2021 22:38:11 GMT
Eagle6, welcome to the DBA life. Much fun and discussion. Please consider the point made by Paul in his first comment. It reminds me of what a leading figure in the wargame life once wrote: “ Historical gamers see an elevated area as a tactical advantage but Ancient gamers see it as a +1. “ Perhaps the question to ask, is not what is the advantage of 4Bw over 8Bw but what looks better or which is historical, including in the army list. Phil writes, "Victory as well as realism under these rules is mos tlikely to be achieved by thinking of elements as bodies of real troops rather than playing pieces, and using them historically. "
Anyway, roll 6's and enjoy the game.
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Post by Les1964 on Apr 3, 2021 23:58:42 GMT
Just to clarify, the rules say you should have 8 models per base for an 8Bw... Yes, "sheffmark" is absolutely correct here. (I am counting-challenged.) As long as the base is the correct size and peoples can tell what troop type they are does it matter ?  |
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Post by eagle6 on Apr 27, 2021 12:55:24 GMT
Thanks everyone for the reply. I'll be fielding plenty of 8Bw's with my Persians.
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Post by paulhannah on Apr 27, 2021 17:47:55 GMT
I'll be fielding plenty of 8Bw's with my Persians. And if you like Persians with 8Bw's, then you'll want to put III/7b Ritsuryo Japanese on your wish-list. They get six 8Bw elements. And Khurasan makes 'em. (I've got the figures; they're on my to-do list.) |
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Post by timurilank on Apr 27, 2021 19:16:16 GMT
Thanks everyone for the reply. I'll be fielding plenty of 8Bw's with my Persians. Welcome to the forum, eagle6. By Persians, do you mean I/60 Achaemenid Persians? If so, then consider increasing the base depth of your horde (7Hd) to match that of the 8Bw. This will not only look tidy, but adding an extra 2 or 3 figures will enhance its appearance. |
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Post by panthros on Apr 28, 2021 6:38:13 GMT
People will read 8BW and think there should be 8 bowmen and that is not the case. Sue says it best and this is why you get the +1 in melee and not with range.
…as also are mixed units with several ranks of close-fighters (rather than a single rank of pavisiers) in front of the shooters and depicted as double elements (8Bw, 8Lb, 8Cb) with close fighter figures in front and bowmen behind.”
— Sue Laflin-Barker's Start Ancient Wargaming with DBA 3.0 by Sue Laflin-Barker
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