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Post by bluestone28 on May 21, 2020 10:07:16 GMT
hi! we have some doubt about rules things around shooting to and from City/Fort/Camp for Bow and Artillery, i was thinking it's simple but, as usual  , it seem not so simple! for me : - the shooting border is at 1 BW around City/Fort/Camp - when Bow shoot from City/Fort/Camp on other infantery, his combat factor is +2 without bonus - when Artillery shoot from City/Fort, his combat factor is +2 without bonus too (Artillery is divided on walls) - when Artillery shoot from Camp, his combat factor is +4 - when Bow receive shoot from outside of the City/Fort, his combat factor is +2 with +4 for City/Fort bonus - when Artillery receive shoot from outside of the City/Fort, his combat factor is +2 with +4 for City/Fort bonus - when Bow receive shoot from outside of the Camp, his combat factor is +2 with +2 for Camp bonus - when Artillery receive shoot from outside of the Camp, his combat factor is +4 with +2 for Camp bonus - the shooting border of a City/Fort/Camp is 1 BW width, all around. (i misunderstood the rules as i was thinking that there was a space of 1 BW between the City base and the shooting border, but i was wrong) all of these statements are made from the French traduction of the Rules so maybe i misunderstood things, (i deleted some wrong statements! i added complexity where there isn't! ) if you can check things and correct it eventually, thanks!  |
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Post by stevie on May 23, 2020 9:32:43 GMT
I was hoping that someone else would answer your questions. Since they haven’t, I’ll have a go... Field Artillery have a CF of 4 v foot and CF 4 v mounted when in the open or in a Camp. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a Camp do they get the +2 defence bonus. Garrison Artillery have a CF of 2 v foot and CF 2 v mounted when in a City or Fort. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a City or Fort do they get the +4 defence bonus. Bows have a CF of 2 v foot and a CF of 4 v mounted when in the open or in a City, Fort or Camp. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a Camp do they get the +2 defence bonus. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a City or Fort do they get the +4 defence bonus. War Wagons have a CF of 3 v foot and a CF of 4 v mounted when in the open or in a City, Fort or Camp. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a Camp do they get the +2 defence bonus. Only if shot at or someone shoots back at them while in a City or Fort do they get the +4 defence bonus. (Apparently WWg CAN be deployed in Forts, Cities and Camps, but they cannot move into a City or Fort
and then claim to be the garrison)All the above bonuses also apply in close combat when defending against an assault of course. That’s the easy part, the combat factors, covered...but I’m confused by your “1 BW” questions. Distant Shooting, on page 10, first paragraph, says:- “Shooting Edge is either (a) the front-edge of a Bow or Artillery element, and any edge of War Wagons, or (b) any 1 BW portion of the perimeter of a city, fort or camp that is garrisoned by the shooters. Target Edge is either (a) all of, or any single ½ BW portion of, an element edge, or (b) any ½ BW of the perimeter of a city, fort or camp.” (See also figures 15a, 15b, and 15c)So there is no “1 BW shooting border around a City/Fort/Camp”...their shooting range is unchanged. It is just the usual Threat Zone that extends 1 BW from these buildings. But if Bows or WWg they must prioritize targeting an enemy within that 1 BW Threat Zone, as normal. I hope all this helps. |
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Post by goragrad on May 23, 2020 21:49:46 GMT
For clarity, when ART or BW shoot at or are hot at by other missile troops when in a camp or city/fort they receive either the +2 camp bonus or +4 city/fort bonus.
Or to put it in context, having BW or Art within range of a camp or city/fort garrisoned by missile does not appear to be a particularly good idea.
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Post by bluestone28 on May 28, 2020 18:43:04 GMT
Thanks a lot guys! ok i'll try to understand all of this! no really, apart some details, it seem that french version is identical to English one (that was the goal i think ) a vocabulary and an organised mess... but, after one or two battle, it's strange how it's so addictive! |
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Post by haywire on May 2, 2021 8:40:17 GMT
Stevie,
I think bluestone may have been referring to the dead zone in the corners of a rectangular fort.
If 0 is the fort, 1 areas that can be fired at, and 2 dead zone
00001111
00001111
11111111
11111222
11111222
11111222
This just shows the bottom right corner of the fort. Each character represents a square 1 BW across.
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Post by haywire on May 2, 2021 9:26:26 GMT
My above argument assumes that the 1 BW nominated shooting area of the fort has to be linear. I think I may be incorrect and that you would have the 1 BW going round the corner (e.g. 0.5 BW on each side of the edge).
In that case you COULD fire in all directions, without a dead zone.
And, the more I think about it, the latter argument must be correct, as the rules have to cope with forts that have non-straight edges.
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Post by stevie on May 2, 2021 9:50:48 GMT
Hmmm...I’m not sure there is a “shooting dead zone in the corners of a rectangular fort “ Haywire. (Although there is a TZ ‘dead area’ extending from the corners of a WWg...see Figures 7d & 7e)Page 10 “Distant Shooting” says:- “Measure range between the closest points of the shooting edge to the target edge.” And it also goes on to say:- “(The target edge) must be entirely within 1 BW of directly in front of part of the shooting edge.” (In other words, they have a 1 BW ‘arc of fire’...see Figure 15a, and replace the Bow with a BUA or Camp)Take Figure 7e for example. If an enemy were in one of the TZ dead zones, it could still be shot at, because the shooters have a 1 BW ‘arc of fire’ either side of the shooting edge. And the same thing will apply to Figure 7d. Anyway, it’s another good reason to have curved edges on your Cities, Forts and Camps. |
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Post by haywire on May 2, 2021 11:04:24 GMT
I now believe there isn't a dead zone. I was mistakenly thinking that the 1 BW shooting length had to be a straight line (our forts are all rectangular...if we had used round or irregular ones we would have realised that it could be curved).
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Post by bluestone28 on May 3, 2021 9:17:52 GMT
yes no dead zones..  |
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, it seem not so simple!
